Pyung Ahn Oh Dan

[agemechanic03]

Ok...So I've been on Pyung Ahn Oh Dan for a couple of weeks now, a hard, but FUN hyung that I really enjoy studying. I do have one problem with the Hyung that I can't get down to well and I imagine you all that have done this hyung know what I am talking about. The movement is when you turn around to go back towards the north and you have to JUMP up and turn 180 and land with your feet crossed but at the same time get as low as you possibly can. Just curious if anyone has any kind of good practice advice on it. Right now, when I get a chance, my instructor has me take one of those 3 section mats and make a triangle and jump over that over and over. Any new advice would be greatly appreciated.

Tang Soo!!!

 

[Tez3]

Aaargh! it's the nightmare move! It's also in the corresponding Wado kata and it's taken me years to learn to do it, the problem I have now is teaching it. The only thing I can suggest is that you go from landing into the double block as quick as you can as it keeps your balance, if your instructor allows you to do this. I'm afraid though it's a practice thing as you are doing.

 

[Makalakumu]

Break the move down and practice steping into it when your right post leg comes out of hu gul jaseh. Once you can step into it, add a little hop and then just make the hop bigger and bigger.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Ah, this is a fun hyung, and a fun move.

My advice is to do exactly the opposite of Tez3's advice, at first. Practice it slowly, in this order:

(1) From the two-fisted block/uppercut in hugul jase, snap both fists to your right hip, right on top, while you simultaneously bring your left knee straight up to your chest. Practice this part especially, making sure you get the snap before you go any further. Also practice standing in this position for more than a second or two, just to work on balance. Keep your right knee slightly bent -- in other words, don't stand up or raise your body at all from your hugul jase.

(2) Once you have that part down, continue to the next part: slam your left foot back down into the ground, propelling yourself upward as you bring up your right knee, all the while keeping your hands at your hip in the same position. You shouldn't be going forward more than a front-stance length or two; too much forward momentum will throw off your balance, and you want to use gravity here anyway. When you land, land with just your right foot. Your right foot should be pointed slightly to your relative left, at about a 45-degree angle off the direction of your previous motion. Again, don't have your right knee locked out; keep it slightly bent, for balance. Stop here, just after you've landed on your right foot, and practice up to there a few more times.

(3) After you have all that down comfortably, add the last part. Your hands are still at your hips, and you're balancing on your right leg. From here, just drop your left leg down behind your right one so that your left shin touches your right calf and your left foot is directly behind your right one, pointing straight towards what was your left when you started. Get that position first, both your knees still slightly bent.

(4) Now, pivoting back your right hip slightly, snap your hands down into a low x-block in front of your right knee, dropping your butt straight down, your back straight, your knees bending low. You're sitting down, basically. Your right arm should be on top of your left. Also, your right foot may pivot so that it's facing in the same direction as the left, so they're in alignment. You can try landing it that way, but it might be a bit more awkward, and you'll lose some snap. Practice (3) and (4) a few times, from set down to snap, until it's all comfortable.

(5) Now go back to the uppercut in hugul jase and do (1) through (4), this time making the left foot and the block land simultaneously( <-- important ). Remember to keep your back straight, getting low by bending your knees and dropping your butt as opposed to bending forward. It should be pretty comfortable, for a few moments, at least. Keep practicing it until it's all fluid.

I'll post a video of this as soon as I can, if it'd help anyone, and if none of my seniors in TSD don't have one readily available.

Tang Soo!

 

[Tez3]

Er, I only said go from the landing to the double forearm fast!
I can't do that bit slowly as my balance is flawed due to a medical condition so that's the easiest way, plus a lot of my fellow students adopted it as we are elderly lol!
I know exactly how to do it.........in my head! it's the body that has trouble.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

@Tez3: I was speaking more in agemechanic03's direction, but do whatever helps you do the move.

And I know exactly what you mean about knowing it in your head. That's what makes it so difficult to explain in words; you come to know it more by muscle memory than terminology.

 

[Catalyst]

JT the Ninja,
Thanks for the detailed breakout (above). This is the new hyung that I'm learning and your step-by-step guide helps very much. Thank you for taking the time to share this with us.

p.s. any links to a video to show this would be very much appreciated.

 

[crushing]

JT the Ninja,
Thanks for the detailed breakout (above). This is the new hyung that I'm learning and your step-by-step guide helps very much. Thank you for taking the time to share this with us.

p.s. any links to a video to show this would be very much appreciated.

Try this one:

http://mchenry.homeip.net/TangSooDo/forms/

 

[Makalakumu]

Here is a good thread on bunkai for this form...

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29375

This is a video of me performing the form...

http://www.martialtalk.com/videos/jk_pyungahnodan.avi

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

@crushing: I wouldn't recommend anything by "Master" MacHenry.

@upnorthkyosa: Good video, but at the move in question here, the jump, you landed with both feet at the same time, already crossed, so it doesn't illustrate the move very well.

Unfortunately, I can't find any decent vids on either YouTube or Google video. I'll do some more looking later, I guess, or get off my lazy behind and make a vid myself :þ

Tang Soo!

 

[crushing]

@crushing: I wouldn't recommend anything by "Master" MacHenry.

@upnorthkyosa: Good video, but at the move in question here, the jump, you landed with both feet at the same time, already crossed, so it doesn't illustrate the move very well.

Unfortunately, I can't find any decent vids on either YouTube or Google video. I'll do some more looking later, I guess, or get off my lazy behind and make a vid myself :þ

Tang Soo!

JT,

How shall I put this. We don't do it quite like Mater McHenry either, but it was the only free video I could find.

I look forward to your posting of the vid! Thanks!

 

[agemechanic03]

Remember Guys, we all do the forms a lil different from each other. UpNorths and Master Macs Vid both have a few diff things than what I do. I'm in Korea being taught by a Korean Master and MBuzzy just left here and is back in the states and they use a lot of different stances in there forms too. Just remember they are not all the same. I will say this tho, Master Macs is the closest to the way my forms are done.

 

[MBuzzy]

Remember Guys, we all do the forms a lil different from each other. UpNorths and Master Macs Vid both have a few diff things than what I do. I'm in Korea being taught by a Korean Master and MBuzzy just left here and is back in the states and they use a lot of different stances in there forms too. Just remember they are not all the same. I will say this tho, Master Macs is the closest to the way my forms are done.

That is a GREAT point. Even though we are all Tang Soo Do or Soo Bahk Do, many minor differences have evolved in different organizations and forms. I can definately attest to this as I have been through 4 different organizations' schools - and everytime I go somewhere else, they are showing me a new place to put my hands for prep movements or minor differences in hyung. It all boils down to the same stuff and the same basis, but there are minor differences.

Also - lets all try to keep in mind that if we evaluate another person based solely on OUR school's way of doing things, they may not be exactly right, but if they are evaulated in their school, they may be perfect.

 

[agemechanic03]

Also - lets all try to keep in mind that if we evaluate another person based solely on OUR school's way of doing things, they may not be exactly right, but if they are evaulated in their school, they may be perfect.

Hit the nail on the head Cap.

JT--you can still post the vid too, it's nice to see how other schools do their forms.

I'll try this week and see what I can do with video tape on how we are instructed here in Korea!

TANG SOO!

 

[agemechanic03]

UpNorth...I watched your vid once again on this Hyung. I can land the jump everytime no problem the way you land it. My instructor has me sitting up as straight as possible. I can land it, but have to move very quickly and usually looks like crap. He also has us getting lower too. Like I said in my last post, I will try and get a vid of myself doing this hyung.

 

[Makalakumu]

This move was always a complete conundrum to me because I could never figure out exactly what it was used for. Then, I started training jujutsu and an old throw popped back into my mind. The move immediately preceeding the jump looks awefully like hani goshi or the spring hip throw.

Which would mean that the jump is meant to land on a downed opponent. Not neccessarily exactly in the way that it is shown in the form, but using some combination of hands and feet.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Itosu designed these forms so that moves had three purposes.

1. They were showing actual self defense moves.
2. They portraying self defense principles.
3. They were meant to increase physical fitness.

This move could be very heavy on 2 and 3, but less so on 1.

 

[Yossarian]

Ive noticed similar things since taking up Judo. You could follow up the hip throw by applying a Dobok(Gi) choke(low x block) and im sure ive seen someone use the crossed legs as a choke on the downed opponent too. You dont have to do the jump, you can just step instead. Ive also seen the moves before the jump used as a neck break/crank.

agemechanic03 just wait untill you learn Bassai(usually comes after Oh dan) it has some of the same moves and most TSD folks will start doing Oh dan half way through Bassai.

 

[agemechanic03]

agemechanic03 just wait untill you learn Bassai(usually comes after Oh dan) it has some of the same moves and most TSD folks will start doing Oh dan half way through Bassai.

I am looking forward to Bassai, but once I get Oh Dan down, then I can start the study of Bassai but I completely understand. I'm not ready, then I'm not ready.

 

[agemechanic03]

So I worked on Pyung Ahn Oh Dan a lil bit today. And after try after try after try, it's getting better. Today I actually landed the jump, sat there for a sec then came up and that's where I messed it up b/c i didn't get a good footing...Hahaha...typical of me. I did record it, but the lighting in the gym was bad, so I'll try to redo it tomorrow when I get out of church. Hopefully will have it up tomorrow when you guys wake up!


Tang Soo!!

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Cool. Practice always precedes improvement.

Tang Soo!