So with JKD or with any of the martial arts for that matter its been said that you can't rush it. Well, it does make sense that a person who works harder and puts more into it is going to learn it faster. For instance, lets say there's a guy who does JKD and he trains three times a week for two hours each time. It makes sense that he will progress and develop knowledge, skill, ability, and technique faster than somebody who only trains once a week for an hour each time. You wouldn't call this rushing it but the person who trains three times a week for two hours each time will no doubt learn it faster.
Putting more into it
- Thread starter PhotonGuy
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Steve
Mostly Harmless
PhotonGuy, do you have a question about this? What kind of a conversation are you hoping for here?
hoshin1600
Senior Master
As usual your premise is flawed. It's not about rushing or taking your time. it's about the time it takes for the brain to absorb and create nural path ways.
How about doing a Google search for once.
How about doing a Google search for once.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
I absolutely agree with that.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Some people can try as many times as they like and never learn...
Yes, but in general if you practice more you will learn faster, yes there are exceptions, but I think it is a fair statement.
DB, do you think this kind of intensive training like cramming every thing into a shorter time span would be suitable for, and should be made available as far as possible, to ALL students? Jx
I would say that it is academic vs pragmatic imo. Generally the more you train you quicker you learn. Exceptions would be those that have bad short term memory issues. In that case a methodical approach is required and then broken down into more parts to aid by using smaller steps. You could spend an entire day on something, miss a step though by not remembering correctly at the start, time is the enemy. Some people do try as many times as they like, but they do learn, just in a different fashion. Abstract minds and all that. Of course though I mean real world here.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Depends on the person and their learning potential and style.
Depends on the training methodology and structure, training the right things at the right times.
Depends on mindfulness, whether the individual is really focused during training or is just turning up and going through the motions.
Depends how much the student thinks for themselves and analyses what they are taught to work it into their own style.
Depends on the desired end result in terms of depth of skill and knowledge i.e. how much is enough, is there a destination or is this a journey that never ends.
There are a lot of factors that contribute to perceived success, many of them equally important to or more important than than time spent training.
Incidentally, this is the same topic as several threads you've already started. Why didn't you just revive one of those? If you were posting mindfully, you would learn from the responses you get and wouldn't have to keep making the same statements over and over. I wonder if you train in the same way... if you do, you can train the same one thing as often as you like, but your overall skill for other purposes is not going to improve.
Depends on the training methodology and structure, training the right things at the right times.
Depends on mindfulness, whether the individual is really focused during training or is just turning up and going through the motions.
Depends how much the student thinks for themselves and analyses what they are taught to work it into their own style.
Depends on the desired end result in terms of depth of skill and knowledge i.e. how much is enough, is there a destination or is this a journey that never ends.
There are a lot of factors that contribute to perceived success, many of them equally important to or more important than than time spent training.
Incidentally, this is the same topic as several threads you've already started. Why didn't you just revive one of those? If you were posting mindfully, you would learn from the responses you get and wouldn't have to keep making the same statements over and over. I wonder if you train in the same way... if you do, you can train the same one thing as often as you like, but your overall skill for other purposes is not going to improve.
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Absolutely. If you look at the rare prodigies who got their BJJ black belt in 3 years or at Olympic gold medalist judokas or at UFC champions, one thing they all have in common is that they put in the hours training as if it was a full time job rather than a casual hobby.
There's more to it than just hours on the mat, of course. Quality of training matters just as much as quantity of training, but all other factors being equal, more time spent training = faster progression of skill.
I believe PG is still fixating on the zen-influenced advice offered to him in some of his previous threads advancing the opinion that extra time and energy focused on achieving a black belt (or any other goalpost indicating a certain level of ability) is somehow counter-productive. Such advice might be sound in the context of aiming for zen-style "enlightenment", but it's factually inaccurate in the context of acquiring physical skills.
It takes time to create neural pathways, but they get created a whole lot quicker with more repetition and time spent training. All other factors (natural talent, quality of instruction, etc) being equal, a martial artist who trains 30 hours per week for 3 years will be a lot more skillful than one who trains 5 hours per week for 10 years.
In my experience, given adequate feedback mechanisms, a desire to learn, and enough time training, just about everyone will get better.
That said, many folks will plateau at a certain level because of a poor attitude for learning, inadequate feedback, limited time training, or a combination of all three.
I'm all in favor of having as many options for students as possible. That said, not everybody is interested in high-volume training, not everybody is mentally or physically prepared for it, and not everybody has a life situation that allows it.
Tony, what mental and physical preparations or condition would a student need to undertake this intensive "fast track" approach to a training? Jx
Well, it sort of depends on how intensive a "fast track" we are talking about. I train 12-15 hours per week. That might seem like a lot to a beginner who trains 3 hours per week, but it would be woefully inadequate (both in time and intensity) for a high-level pro fighter.
In general, here are some considerations to take into account:
Life circumstances and time: It's almost impossible to work a full time job and also train 40 hours per week. Even if you had the sheer determination to pull it off, you probably wouldn't be getting enough sleep to properly recover from the rigors of training. You have to look at your schedule and figure out what is realistic for your situation.
Physical conditioning: If you jump straight from being a couch potato to training 20 hours per week, you are very likely to get injured. Even if you are young and fit and athletic, your specific martial art will put specialized stresses on your body that your other athletic pursuits have not. I would recommend that anybody wanting to engage in high-volume training build up to it by gradually increasing their training time and intensity. How gradual the progression needs to be depends on the individual. An athletic 20 year old body will adapt more quickly than an out-of-shape 40 year old body with lots of prior injuries. Getting good nutrition and sufficient sleep also makes a difference in making this adaptation.
Mental outlook: I'm not sure whether this is more a matter of mental preparation or just a matter of an individual's motivation for the process at hand. I suppose the two big questions are 1) how much work am I willing to put in to achieve my goals? and b) how much do I enjoy the process? I know for myself that even if I had unlimited time to train and perfect health, I would get burned out with anything more than 20 hours per week training and would no longer enjoy it. Probably most people would get burned out with less than that. Some folks could do more and still enjoy it. I don't know whether it's possible to train yourself to enjoy higher volumes of training, but even if you could - what would be the point? There's lots of other stuff to do in life. I guess the real preparation to make before diving into a high-volume training environment is to spend enough time training to know whether you will have any fun with it. We periodically get queries on the forum from guys who have never actually trained, but want to find some sort of full-time live-in training environment. They've got some romantic ideal of what it would be like from books or movies, but they don't know if they would even enjoy casual training as a hobby.
I think the idea of you not being able to rush it has more to do with the idea that you have to be patient with yourself rather than xx hrs training vs xxx hrs training == different levels of progression. You will learn it at the pace that you will learn it. You may learn faster than someone else or you may learn slower. You may learn certain skills faster and you may learn certain skills slower. MA like any skill, is something that is acquired through practice... lots and lots of practice.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah. Look if you can physically do it you will get results. I don't think it is a shorter time span. I think most people train pretty lazy.
@Tony Dismukes, pertinent and easy to understand as ever Tony thank you for laying these things out so clearly..
I want to ask you about mental preparation like you have said only I had not read anywhere in your description about intelligence.. Do you think is it relevant a students intelligence in order for them to achieve the same level of adeptness as others only in this shorter time frame? Thank you, Jx
@drop bear, if it is only -or mostly- about physical abilities does there need to be time for the body to recover as it sound like quite a hefty physical demand on the student? or can muscle recovery etc also be hastened? Thank you again for your comment, Jx.
I want to ask you about mental preparation like you have said only I had not read anywhere in your description about intelligence.. Do you think is it relevant a students intelligence in order for them to achieve the same level of adeptness as others only in this shorter time frame? Thank you, Jx
@drop bear, if it is only -or mostly- about physical abilities does there need to be time for the body to recover as it sound like quite a hefty physical demand on the student? or can muscle recovery etc also be hastened? Thank you again for your comment, Jx.
It depends on what type of intelligence you are talking about. Some people are wired to pick up physical movements faster, others may be able to memorize forms or history faster.
It doesn't make much difference as far as being prepared for intense, high-volume training. It's not as if someone of "lower" intelligence is going to run out of available brain space if they train too much in a week.
Think of it like learning a foreign language. One person might be gifted with languages and pick them up relatively easily. Another person might struggle learning a new language. Either person will learn the language faster if they move to a country where that language is spoken and immerse themselves in it then they would if they just stayed at home and took lessons for 3 hours per week.
Drop bear can expand on this, but good nutrition and plenty of sleep are vital. Professional fighters are also frequently known to rely on pharmaceutical aids to enhance recovery, but I don't think most of us push ourselves hard enough to require that sort of assistance.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
This is pretty much the same exact thing as many other posts you have done.....much like December 19, 2014.
I have no idea what you hope to gain or why you seem to lack originality or why any of us have to continue to endure your constant repitition
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Have you guys heard of Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences? This would be what he would describe as kinesthetic or physical intelligence.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah. Sleep,good diet,stop smoking and drinking. Otherwise doing something each day so the hard exercise is not such a shock.
Doing fitness and strength training so each session is not leaving you crippled.
And then just doing it.
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