Proper mind set

[Kong Soo Do]

Back when I taught L.E. and Corrections academies I was known as the 'Reality Check' instructor. One of my specialty topics was having a proper mind set. I thought that it would make a good topic for a thread, so here goes...

I study and teach Mu Shin Kwan Kong Soo Do which is basically just a label I've given to the totality of training I've received over the last 36 years which includes Chinese, Okinawan, Korean, Canadian, Israeli and American fighting arts. I've received this training as a method of self-defense rather than any connection to sport, hobby, personal enlightenment etc. I have a half-dozen professional combative instructor certifications and over 200 on-duty successful uses-of-force.

With this said...MSK Kong Soo Do is the ultimate martial art, period and end of story. Nothing else even comes close. There is no one on this board of any level that can defeat me in a hand-to-hand altercation or with weapons. I am the best, none of you are even close. I will prevail in any altercation, no matter the odds or how many attackers there may be. It is what it is.

Now...either I'm really, really arrogant and opening up the thread to a 'my art is better than your art' flame war, or I have a serious point to make. When I taught the academies I would get everyone on the mats, usually between 25-35 in a recruit class. I would point to the exit and tell them that there was no way in the world that any or all of them could stop me from getting to and through the exit. That none of them could defeat me in hand-to-hand combat. I would pause to let that sink in and then explain that it wasn't arrogance speaking. I don't have a big red 'S' tattoed on my chest and I'm not bullet-proof. I was speaking from a positive mind-set. If I get knocked down...I'm getting back up. If I get shot or stabbed...I'm going to fight on. If I need to get to the exit...no one on this planet will be able to stop me.

Why?

Because in my mind, on the other side of that exit is my wife (disabled) and my son. They both need me. I'm going home to them no matter what, period, end of story. That is the mind-set that I'm talking about. One that will keep you fighting for survival no matter what is thrown at you. That will keep you from curling up in a fetal position and quitting. We had a saying that I engrained into my recruits;

We never quit and we always win.

What will keep you fighting no matter what?

 

[oftheherd1]

I think you have come on a little strong and scared people off from answering. I understand what you are asking. I would hope all MA beyond the halfway mark to black belt (or its equivalent), begin to understand they need to make a commitment to any fight they may have to engage in. I think that is really what it is all about. Are you sufficiently committed to any fight that you will not stop. Reasons? family, pride, simply survival, they all have their place.

 

[seasoned]

I do believe that mind set is the most important element in any confrontation. Where your coming from, it is without question. Where L.E. as well as Military are concerned, winning is not an option, you must at all cost. In any use of force situation where civilians are required to find an exit route, L.E. and Military are required to engage. I think here lies the difference, a civilian, as a martial artist, can be taught the proper mind set of kill or be kill "so to speak", but, there are choices that that civilian needs to make, as to how far they will take the confrontation, and when will they have gone too far, where the laws are concerned. Where L.E. is concerned, there is always a firearm involved, with the potential to have that same firearm taken away and used on the officer or bystander. If I were teaching two classes, one to civilians, and one to L.E., these would be two different classes altogether. Those that strap a firearm on for a living will understand, those that don't, won't........

 

[Kong Soo Do]

This isn't a L.E. vs. civilian thread. And I came on VERY strong for a purpose. This is a very serious subject, perhaps the most serious from a SD perspective. It doesn't matter whether you're in a high-liability field (police, military, corrections, E.P., bouncer etc) or an office worker. We're not talking about trying to avoid the conflict, that is a given. We're talking about all of the non-force options have been taken away and you're now in the fight of and for your life (or a loved one or even a complete stranger). Having the proper mind-set is a must. What is going to keep you getting up? What is going to keep you fighting to overcome (or escape if that becomes a viable option)?

Many don't consider this aspect of training. Strong topic, serious questions.

 

[Jenna]

Back when I taught L.E. and Corrections academies I was known as the 'Reality Check' instructor. One of my specialty topics was having a proper mind set. I thought that it would make a good topic for a thread, so here goes...

I study and teach Mu Shin Kwan Kong Soo Do which is basically just a label I've given to the totality of training I've received over the last 36 years which includes Chinese, Okinawan, Korean, Canadian, Israeli and American fighting arts. I've received this training as a method of self-defense rather than any connection to sport, hobby, personal enlightenment etc. I have a half-dozen professional combative instructor certifications and over 200 on-duty successful uses-of-force.

With this said...MSK Kong Soo Do is the ultimate martial art, period and end of story. Nothing else even comes close. There is no one on this board of any level that can defeat me in a hand-to-hand altercation or with weapons. I am the best, none of you are even close. I will prevail in any altercation, no matter the odds or how many attackers there may be. It is what it is.

Now...either I'm really, really arrogant and opening up the thread to a 'my art is better than your art' flame war, or I have a serious point to make. When I taught the academies I would get everyone on the mats, usually between 25-35 in a recruit class. I would point to the exit and tell them that there was no way in the world that any or all of them could stop me from getting to and through the exit. That none of them could defeat me in hand-to-hand combat. I would pause to let that sink in and then explain that it wasn't arrogance speaking. I don't have a big red 'S' tattoed on my chest and I'm not bullet-proof. I was speaking from a positive mind-set. If I get knocked down...I'm getting back up. If I get shot or stabbed...I'm going to fight on. If I need to get to the exit...no one on this planet will be able to stop me.

Why?

Because in my mind, on the other side of that exit is my wife (disabled) and my son. They both need me. I'm going home to them no matter what, period, end of story. That is the mind-set that I'm talking about. One that will keep you fighting for survival no matter what is thrown at you. That will keep you from curling up in a fetal position and quitting. We had a saying that I engrained into my recruits;

We never quit and we always win.

What will keep you fighting no matter what?

I think that arrogance (by any other name) is a very dangerous concept in self-defence. You may (or any of us may) be the best fighter we have ever met. We may have the greatest resilience and force of will imaginable. Still, as you rightly say, nobody is invincible and no-one can halt the thrust of a blade or a shell from a firearm. Force of will does I know for a fact enable you to continue injured though it will not necessarily prevent injury. You may be able to engineer a well-fought path through a gang of youths to safety or to those that you love, though that will not necessarily ensure you have got there without a puncture wound to your kidneys, or a blow to the head. Perhaps a fatal one.

Some have more contact with mortality than others. Some have survived and unfortunately gain a sense of being ubermensch incarnate. Some however have faced it and realise that they can be beaten. None of us are young and strong forever.

Accept mortality and but indentify your own personally limiting factors. With that knowledge you can adapt your training and drill them out as best you can. Mindset, as you correctly suggest, is a very big factor in reducing your burden of physical liabilities whatever they might be. However, it is a weapon and not a shield.

An interesting question, thank you, Jenna.

 

[Chris Parker]

Yeah, I'm with Jenna here. The way you come across may be arrogance, and it may be deliberate, but I see a range of other things there, namely a disconnect with reality and a drive based in fear. Neither of which are what I would think of as a "proper mind set".

Now, the first thing to say, probably, is that I feel that mind-set training, and proper mind-set in training, is probably the biggest, and most important factor when it comes to self defence training. But that proper mind-set is not simply "I will prevail no matter what!", although that is certainly a part of it. If that's all it is, though, it is too limited, and leaves better options out of the equation. Essentially, it's a case of "I won't be beaten, I don't even know the meaning of the word!", which often leads to someone with a larger vocabulary explaining it to you. With force, if necessary.

One of my students recently posted on our facebook page that he doesn't want to think that in a knife defence situation he will be cut, as he thinks that is negative thinking. So he tells himself he won't be cut. Unfortunately, that missed the point. The idea of recognising and accepting that you will be cut is so you don't panic or over-react (or freeze) when or if it happens, whereas going in with an overly confident approach can lead to very negative effects once that belief is challenged (in this case by being cut).

Another danger with this type of mind-set is that it can lead you to engage when you really shouldn't. I was channel surfing a few days ago, and one of the channels was playing one of those "World's Craziest Videos!" shows, with the theme being fights. So, I decided to watch, and see what lessons I could take out of it. There were a few there, but one that is relevant here is a service-station attendant who was heading outside for a breath of fresh air. As he got to the door, it was pushed open by a guy in a mask, holding a couple of handguns. Our attendant, instead of taking a step back and complying, then letting the insurance company sort it out, thought to himself that he wasn't about to be robbed like that, so he leapt at the gunman, tackling him. In the brief struggle which took the gunman outside, six shots went off.... three of which hit the attendant; one in the arm, passing through his bicep, one in the chest, and one in the neck. The gunman ran off, leaving the attendant to bleed out. Fortunately, there were a few others there who dressed the attendant's wounds to try to slow the bleeding, and managed to get him airlifted to a hospital. He pulled through, but only just. And here's the kicker... in the struggle, he recognised the eyes of the gunman. It was a regular customer of the service station, who had no intention of using the guns, and just wanted to rob the place. The attendant did not have the need to engage against someone with a gun, but his mindset ("I won't be robbed!") got in the way. The show called him a "hero". I called him lucky, and frankly stupid.

The first part of your mind-set has to deal with personal protection. A piece of philosophy that I live by is taken from Jack Hoban by way of Robert Humphrey, and that is that everywhere I go, people are safer because I am there. Not that I will prevail no matter what, but that I will make the decisions I have to in order to maintain their safety (and beyond that, their happiness). And the first thing that has to happen for that is that I have to still be around in order to maintain that safety for them! That said, if the only way for someone I care about to get away safely is for me to not, that is fine as well. But that's a last resort. So while having firm belief in yourself, your ability, your skills, your resourcefulness etc is great, it needs to be tempered with a more realistic outlook. Otherwise you end up getting shot when you could just fill out an insurance claim.

Oh, and if you tried that "none of you will stop me getting through that door" thing, expect to be severely beaten or killed for it. This ain't a movie. Telling people that none of them will beat you in hand to hand (and especially making the incredible mistake of "letting it sink in for a moment") just tells them to get weapons and hit you all at once. I'm hoping you aren't serious in that part at all, cause if you are, I'm a little worried.

 

[seasoned]

Back when I taught L.E. and Corrections academies I was known as the 'Reality Check' instructor. One of my specialty topics was having a proper mind set. I thought that it would make a good topic for a thread, so here goes...

Since you brought it up in your first sentence, I figured I would give you a "Reality Check" pertaining to over lapping a certain mind set, used in your previous training, and applying it with a wide brush to a dojo setting. In one there is no choice, while in the the other it begs an open mind. I fully agree with you that once we go hands on, training takes over, and provided we have trained properly, the will to survive is a given. I don't think I ever talked to anyone that trained to lose.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Unfortunately Chris, either you didn't read the post fully and in context or you're just not getting it fully and in context. To begin with, the adage that you will get cut in a knife fight is, as your student remarks, negative training. It isn't true. You 'might' be cut, depending on the circumstances of the situation and your level of training. But that doesn't mean that you WILL be cut. I've been in edged weapon confrontations and have not been cut. Secondly, as I've already remarked, none of us (and I used myself as an example) have a big red 'S' on our chest and we're not bullet proof. This means that we 'might' get injured in an altercation. And that is the point; if you get cut...you keep fighting. If you get punched...you keep fighting. You keep looking for a means of escape. You keep looking for improvised weapons if necessary. You keep looking for alternatives.

This is what I'm talking about and trying to relay to you (the reader). YOUR martial art...YOUR skill set...YOUR training has to be the best in your mind. You have to have confidence in what you've learned. Doesn't mean you walk around like a Ninja. Doesn't mean you walk around like a bad ***. Doesn't mean you go around looking for a problem. If you've read anything other than this, you've read the post and the meaning incorrectly. And judging from your comments, you're not gleaning a full understanding of the post, no offense intended. For example;

Oh, and if you tried that "none of you will stop me getting through that door" thing, expect to be severely beaten or killed for it. This ain't a movie. Telling people that none of them will beat you in hand to hand (and especially making the incredible mistake of "letting it sink in for a moment") just tells them to get weapons and hit you all at once. I'm hoping you aren't serious in that part at all, cause if you are, I'm a little worried.

This isn't stated as a challenge to a fight. Like my OP, it is meant to immediately grab your attention, get you focused, get you thinking. Letting it 'sink in' allows the student to process what has been said. Get them to a point of understanding that we all have something personal to live for, to fight for if necessary! It worries me that some aren't understanding this completely.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Since you brought it up in your first sentence, I figured I would give you a "Reality Check" pertaining to over lapping a certain mind set, used in your previous training, and applying it with a wide brush to a dojo setting. In one there is no choice, while in the the other it begs an open mind. I fully agree with you that once we go hands on, training takes over, and provided we have trained properly, the will to survive is a given. I don't think I ever talked to anyone that trained to lose.

It makes no difference whether a person is a police officer, an office worker, a Wal-Mart greeter or a student. A person is a person. If they don't have the mind set to survive then they very likely won't. They may not 'train to lose', but if they can't flip the mental switch and become a 'determined survivor' then they will likely lose.

 

[Buka]

I know the point you're making. Damn good one, too. And especially important in L.E.

As for knife fighting, there's really only three outcomes. He gets cut and you don't. You get cut and he don't. Or you both get cut. (can't have the "neither of you get cut" because that really isn't a knife fight.) So in knife fighting, there's a two out of three chance of getting cut.

As for in regular Martial training, I think the proper mindset comes with experience. You can preach it but you can't teach it.

 

[seasoned]

I fully agree with you that once we go hands on, "training takes over", and provided we have trained properly, the will to survive is a given.

I think I'm getting it, read above, again.

It makes no difference whether a person is a police officer, an office worker, a Wal-Mart greeter or a student. A person is a person. If they don't have the mind set to survive then they very likely won't. They may not 'train to lose', but if they can't flip the mental switch and become a 'determined survivor' then they will likely lose.

Yes, no problem here. Your first post was full of passion, but could come off as a "hot head". I realize the point your trying to make, and I agree with the mind set mentality.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I know the point you're making. Damn good one, too. And especially important in L.E.

As for knife fighting, there's really only three outcomes. He gets cut and you don't. You get cut and he don't. Or you both get cut. (can't have the "neither of you get cut" because that really isn't a knife fight.) So in knife fighting, there's a two out of three chance of getting cut.

As for in regular Martial training, I think the proper mindset comes with experience. You can preach it but you can't teach it.

Thank you!

 

[Jenna]

Yeah, I'm with Jenna here. The way you come across may be arrogance, and it may be deliberate, but I see a range of other things there, namely a disconnect with reality and a drive based in fear. Neither of which are what I would think of as a "proper mind set".

No Christopher! You are not with me here, I am sorry to say you are misinterpreting me and so my point is overlooked!! I do not think OP is arrogant nor did I ever suggest that!! I apprehend entirely the hypothetical, "what if" nature of this OP and that it is designed to make us think a little and I believe I gave a response based on that.

My points still stand, that arrogance *per se* (and not that of any particular poster!!!) is a dangerous thing in SD whether we call it that explicitly or disguise it as being a mindset of invincibility. The way to circumvent that danger and still maintain that positive mental attitude is, in my opinion, to accept mortality and then adapt our training to reduce any limitations we might have in our technique. Only this way can we reduce our vulnerabilities, because we are all vulnerable no matter how mighty at our arts we may be or may think ourselves to be. Mindset is a requisite, I absolutely agree, however it is insufficient as a sole weapon and as I said, it is not a shield. I hope my point is more clear if it was not originally, Jenna

 

[Brian King]

Kong Soo Do asked-

“What will keep you fighting no matter what?”

I know that better men and women than I have been killed, murdered, committed suicide, failed morally etc. Some were very good friends of mine. One friend was brutally murdered while trying to unsuccessfully protect another (who was also murdered), another associate committed murder, a couple of close friends cheat on their spouses, and I know some thieves. All of these people are better people than I am in someway or another, some were/are smarter, some were/are better martially trained, tougher, better looking (a given LOL), better educated. Yet they still ‘failed’. This taught me that anyone can fail, no matter how tough, smart, or lucky. If anyone can fail then logic tells me that I must always guard against the little things that lead to failure with the realization that even then an eagle can drop a deer on my head ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=213-p5zkA2s ) Knowing that better than I have fallen helps keep me humble and forces me to realize that training needs to be in my opinion survival not just winning motivated and just importantly that life must be lived.


What keeps me in the fight is "one more breath five more seconds and." Many fights were lost by giving up right before the other was going to. That said, I have made my peace, paperwork is in order and if I have to go am ready. This gives me peace, a person at peace with death is hard to panic and difficult to defeat.




Buka wrote:

“You can preach it but you can't teach it.”

I disagree with this. Will is something that we are all born with. If we all have it, then why do some give up or seem so lacking in will? Will in my opinion is like a muscle or a skill. It can be trained, it can be strengthened. Finding a purpose often strengthens will. A change in mindset or perspective often effects will. Building on small successes can strengthen will (focusing on small defeats can weaken will).


Strengthening a survival mindset:
What are some of the methods of building a survival mindset? I recommend reading survivor accounts from all kinds of different situations. It is beneficial to look at what characteristics survivors have in common. Awareness, service to others, creativity and willingness to think outside of the box, acceptance (of how things are rather than wishful thinking), goal setting etc. All of these characteristics can be trained and strengthened thru training.


In your training, learn to see the small victories. Too much focus on what was done wrong or ‘not good enough’ is unhealthy and unbalanced. Learn to see these defeats as a chance for improvement but then move on. Find the little victories and then build on them.


Awareness: Spend some time purposefully working on awareness. Building habits of awareness help to strengthen intuition and confidence. Learn to trust your ‘gut’. Being able to see a situation develop helps you avoid it if possible. While intimately involved in a situation being aware of what is going on on the outskirts is vital (is that my gal getting the AK out of the trunk or theirs?) Being aware helps to see options. While doing martial training now and then observe the rest of the class more than you and your current partners. Keep working but learn to be active while being aware of others. There are many ways of building awareness skills. Off the top of my head, working blindfolded, in the dark, with no verbal communication. What are some other ways of building awareness?


Service to others: Whether structure fires, cancer, earthquakes, ambushes, or the common street brawl/mugging. Many survivors commented that they lived to see their children or loved one, others found someone weaker than they and so had to stay strong for that person, many recall the brotherhood of their comrades. All are good reasons to keep on. Having service to others rather than self helps promote teamwork which enhances survival odds. Find someone or some purpose in life to keep living for.


Creativity, thinking outside of the box: What in the world does creativity and thinking outside of the box have to do with survival mindset, it is after all, about gritting teeth and getting thru the door no matter how many get in the way, let the bodies stack up! Sure, but what about going out the window instead? A training suggestion sometimes while doing martial drills limit abilities to force creativity. Tie an arm, lift a leg, face a specified direction (watching a clock and being aware of every second passing for example) no matter from where the attack comes. use weapons wrong- i.e. hold the pistol upside down by the slide, hold a knife by the blade, hold a rifle with only one hand, and do the drills. What are some other ways to heighten creativity or thinking outside of the box?


Acceptance: Do not spend time or energy worrying or whining about the ‘shoulda’ ‘coulda’ ‘woulda’ circumstances. You are in fight for your life, get over it and get on with it. You are losing? Get over it and do something to even the odds or escape. See the smoke in the night club, don’t wonder why is it here, how could it happen- accept the place is on fire and deal with it.


Goal setting: Goals should end with and and not be final. Getting up and, crawling over to that low spot and, get over there and. Keeping goals small and achievable allows small successes to be built upon one after the other. This produces confidence. If in a physical conflict that has lasted long, the others will also be suffering, building on the small victories and building confidence robs the others of confidence.
Why the and? It forces the next goal. Vladimir Vasiliev once cautioned that soldiers can drag their brothers miles to get to the medics while having very serious injuries only to die on the stretcher from the ‘whew made it and then giving up the fight’ thought. The fight isn’t over until you say it is - make sure it is not too soon and do not put your survival in others hands.


Two physical/mental Systema drills to help build a survivor mindset. Warning these drills can be dangerous and should be done under supervision.


One person lays on the ground face up breathing and one by one people lay across them. For example the first lays across the chest/stomach of the person on the ground, the second across the legs. the person laying across the chest should keep an eye on the person on the ground making sure that they are breathing and conscious. Slowly if the person on the ground can take it a third person is added to the pile, then a fourth... When the person on the ground has enough they wait a bit before trying to escape the pile calming their psyche and prepping for the upcoming work. Then (usually without the obvious pushing and pulling with their arms) by working from whatever freedom they can find or create they try to slide out from under the pile. It can take awhile. The folks in the pile are just dead weight, not actively trying to keep the person on the bottom. For the ones supervising each pile if the person on the bottom panics it is important that everyone stay on the pile and the supervisor helps to calm the person on the bottom, gets them breathing properly only then does one single person get off the pile. If needed the second person (first on the pile) can add some tension to their own body taking some of the weight off the person on the bottom. The the person continues with the drill...wait a moment then start the escape/ survival process.
It is about not giving up, remaining calm and working from freedom. Except for the last those in the pile have this work to do as well.


A second drill is a circle drill Konstantin showed at camp once. It is a soldier drill done to restore health, energy, confidence, and team bonding. A single person sits in the center of a circle of their comrades. That persons chore is to keep moving, keep wrestling, not give up, keep breathing. Their job is not to escape, not to stand up, not to injure or kill. Just stay on the ground wrestling the best that they can. Then one by one others are added to the center of the circle. First one goes in and the two start to wrestle. The job is ground movement, not so much getting submissions or dominating. The job is more complex than that. It is to push the person in the center, to tire their muscles, tax their pride, and encourage them to keep moving on not give up. After a couple of minutes a third person is added to the center so now it is two against the first and it continues, then a fourth
person is added so now it is three versus one and they are fresh...on and on it goes until the first is just moving, just surviving. The others encouraging by providing pain,leverages, and weight. Then switch is called and the next is placed in the center....


It is about not giving up, remaining calm and working from freedom. The ones providing the work must be prepared for the first to panic or enrage. They must be able to protect themselves and remain calm, controlling and working the first even if amongst panic or temper tantrum.


Good luck
Warmest Regards
Brian King