Problem with former instructor

[Kempojujutsu]

This board has been good about answering different questions, so here is my problem. My former instructor has decided to open a school here, in the town I live in. There is a lot to this story, so I will try to be brief with the details. He taught in this town awhile back. But his daytime job force him to stop and he asked me to take over his school. From day one I always told people it was our school, he always refered to it as your school. There was a peroid that he got out of martial arts for several (2) years. Since my 1st Black Belt test he hasn't taught me at all. I am now 3rd BB and have been for about 4 years. That's another thing, I paid the man for my 3rd BB and never recieved the certificate so has a couple of my BB under me. Several people have called about programs which I don't teach and I have given them to him. He has several Tai Chi programs going on. He started a school about 30 minutes a way from me which I knew about and tried to help him with. Now I here he is trying to start or has started a school in the town I am in. The town is small 15,000 we have about 3 or 4 Martial arts programs in town. I know he has every right to start a program here, but what I am upset about he never told me about this. He also will be teaching the same art as me. So what should I do. Am I making too much out of this or do I have the right to be upset with him? There is more to this story which at these time don't want to mention. Thank you for any advice. Bob

 

[chufeng]

Bob,

Tough situation...are you teaching to make an income, or do you do it in your spare time? If it is for an income then his starting another school impacts on your ability to feed your family but I don't think you can legally do anything EXCEPT have a better dojo than him and attract more students...

If you do it in your spare time, why don't you agree to share facilities and teaching responsibilities...you'd both benefit.

My guess is that the real reason for this post is in the following:

There is more to this story which at these time don't want to mention.

...and I can't offer suggestions if I don't know the whole story.

Good luck
:asian:
chufeng

 

[Shinzu]

this is most def. a sticky situation. perhaps you should have a conversation with him. does he know you have a school in the area also? maybe it is not meant in a challenging manner, but i can see why you would be upset...and rightfully so. just keep it together. is he a more skilled MA than you?

 

[FruitLoopy]

How many students are in each of the different martial art programs in town?

Unless the total = aprox 15000, then there is room for more schools. How many hair salons and barber shops are there in town (including those who work out of their home) and how do the stay in business. The martial arts business is far from saturation so we are not in competition with one another, but in competition with ourselves. If you school is doing well right now with a strong and loyal following, this shouldn't affect you too much unless you let it. Meaning focus on Your school and students, forgeting about the 'competition', and everything will be fine.

The Certificate dealings is something you'd have to resolve with your Instructor. If things don't work out start looking to allign with another Head Instructor or Organization/affiliation.


:asian:
T. White

 

[FruitLoopy]

I hope my post didn't read wrong?

What I was trying to get across is that everyone should train in martial arts in some form. So there is always a need for schools. Also if you are doing well already, have confidence in yourself and grow on what you already have. "The only limits we tend to have are the ones we set on ourselves!"


:asian:
T. White

 

[Kempojujutsu]

Originally posted by FruitLoopy

. If things don't work out start looking to allign with another Head Instructor or Organization/affiliation.


:asian:
T. White

I am all ready planning to do this. Especially if the things that I have heard are true.
Bob
P.S Thanks to all who have responded. I appreciate all of the input and help so far.

 

[Kempojujutsu]

Originally posted by chufeng
Bob,

Tough situation...are you teaching to make an income, or do you do it in your spare time? If it is for an income then his starting another school impacts on your ability to feed your family but I don't think you can legally do anything EXCEPT have a better dojo than him and attract more students...

If you do it in your spare time, why don't you agree to share facilities and teaching responsibilities...you'd both benefit.

My guess is that the real reason for this post is in the following:



...and I can't offer suggestions if I don't know the whole story.

Good luck
:asian:

chufeng

This my second job. I am trying to build my school up so I can quit my daytime job. My instructor has promoted around 55 Black Belts. None of them are with him anymore due to some of the same things happening to me. The man is a great martial artist in knowing his stuff. But on the business side he is closer to a used car sales man. I really hate to say that about him. But most of his Black Belts have told me how he ownes them certificates that they have paid for. Lately he starts programs runs them for 3 or 4 months then says he can't do it any more. The latest thing, several of his students quit his school and asked if they could continue thier trainning with me. There was going to be around 20-30 people come to train with me. He asked if I was involved in trying to shut him down. I told him no. The reason most of them where going to come to my school was. Not getting paid for their work, paying for uniforms and not getting them. There was 4 families that came from his school to mine. Two of the students where teaching his kids classes. He wasn't arriving to class till 5 minutes till the adult classes were to start. Now he has to teach the kids classes. My plans are to move on. I have a friend who now teaches Kyusho ryu kempo that I plan on working with. He also train under the same guy I am talking about and has had the same problems.
Bob

 

[arnisador]

Is there any hope of coordinating programs with his school, or do you no longer wish to work with him?

This is a tough situation. If he's as unable to follow through as you seem to indicate, it may be you can wait him out and in 2 years when he quits pick up his students that he's recruited ofr you (same art after all). It may also be that this is a good spur for you to start a more aggressive marketing campaign. Definitely, consider the organization issue.

I understand the small-town issue, being in Terre Haute, and we both know there's no real solution unless you're willing to move (or travel to teach--a local instructor drives over an hour each way twice a week to teach at a large university, for example, in part because of this problem).

 

[chufeng]

Bob,

I don't see a problem...other than the emotional investment you've put into this.

Sounds like your ex-instructor is a bad businessman (which may be good for your business)...if he has a pattern of opening and closing schools, it is only a matter of time before his new endeavor comes crashing down...be patient...

Sounds to me like you are a nice guy and care about him and the students that are getting screwed by him...good for you...
But, understand this...he is responsible for his own failures...don't let him push his failure on you ("are you trying to run me out of business?")...his pattern is set and, likely, he will always find someone else to blame...you may be his scapegoat this time...but it doesn't matter...don't get sucked into an emotional toilet...let him wallow in his own emotions...you just keep doing the right thing for your students, and when his students come calling, do the right thing for them (without negative comments about his school...just: "I'm sorry you went through that; here's how we do business...")

Hope this helps...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Kempojujutsu]

Again everyone Thank you so much for your input. I do feel better and am looking forward to joining a new organzation that does care about it's students and instructors, and is not money driven or requires you to have certain amount of students.
Bob

 

[michaeledward]

The best way to deal with a competitor is to do more, better, faster, as simple as that.

Talk with your people about what you do, why you do it, why you are the best choice in town.

Don't worry about, or address him, or his business. Don't talk negatively about it. If someone asks, just say you wish him well, and redirect to the conversation to what you do at your school and why it is the best choice.

Get yourself invovled with a new instructor, one with an excellent reputation, and if a client says didn't you study with so-and-so, just point out that you have studied with several people and your current instructor is ....

You need to frame the debate.

Think of it, perhaps, in this way .... what if it wasn't your former instructor ? How would you behave if I came into town and was going to open a new studio. I would suggest you use that as your frame of reference.

Good Luck

 

[ob2c]

chufeng and michaeledward have already given good advice on dealing with this situation, so I won't rehash what they've said. But maybe I can add a couple of pointers for drawing in the students this guy will inevitably run off or leave high and dry.

'They' say that the average person has to be hit on about 5 to 7 times before they buy. If he hits them a few times and runs them off, make sure you are available to pick up the busines. Get a cell phone, if possible. Make sure your message machine is in good order, check it frequently, and return calls promptly. Show them from the start you do things differently.

Offer a discount to anyone who's been done dirty by another school. Don't make a big issue of this, and don't advertise it. Just make it a personal policy that if they initially come in with a horror story you help them restart with minimal expense and trouble. You'll not only likely get their busines, but you'll start building loyalty and trust. Examples: discounted lessons for a month or so. Discounts on uniforms if they paid but didn't recieve one from their old school, or if you require a different uniform in yours.

Look at what the other schools offer, and more important, what they don't. Then fill any voids you find. Improve your own skills if you can in any areas you note. Bring in outside expertise where you can. Ex: bring in a grappler once a month, or a psychologist, or whatever you can find that's needed.

Basically, you need to get aggressive as a businessman, while keeping relations civil with the other schools. Good luck.

Edit: I should qualify the source here- I don't run a school. These are just some things I've seen successful businessmen do.