principle in sentence

Reedone816

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Hi,
its been years since I posted.
Just wondering, if other MA, modern or traditional, has similar teaching principal with ours, which is in form of sentence.
just for example:

"straight against oblique, oblique against straight".
one of the application of that is like when we receive attack from north to south, then we block, counter or move from center to north east/north west/south east/south west.

or "keep the dead dead, change what is still alive".
one of the application is like when we are in arm bar, we keep our arm to be in stalemate, and move our body to be in a position that the arm bar became ineffective.

anyone else has similar principles of teaching?
 
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Reedone816

Reedone816

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to moderator, sorry for double thread post, can it be merged or delete one of it?
thanks.
 

Jenna

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Hi,
its been years since I posted.
Just wondering, if other MA, modern or traditional, has similar teaching principal with ours, which is in form of sentence.
just for example:

"straight against oblique, oblique against straight".
one of the application of that is like when we receive attack from north to south, then we block, counter or move from center to north east/north west/south east/south west.

or "keep the dead dead, change what is still alive".
one of the application is like when we are in arm bar, we keep our arm to be in stalemate, and move our body to be in a position that the arm bar became ineffective.

anyone else has similar principles of teaching?
that is an interesting way of teaching, thank you for sharing :) It leave some room for interpretation maybe?? you have others like this?
 
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Reedone816

Reedone816

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that's the point, it was made to have several interpretations, so it leaves to the student understanding. like for me for example the straight versus oblique was to me only the way we move ourselves in response to the opponent line of attack. but now it has deeper meaning, it also apply in how we apply our own force in response of the opponent, so my understanding from only applying 2D responses to 3D responses.
so the longer you learn the system, the more you see the principles applied to.

and for others of course there are others, we only have few, the late grand masters codified our system in several simple sentences so we can remember it easily. These you can just say sentences of 'common senses'.

another examples:
"when get out all at once is too hard, try getting out one by one"
or "thick against thin, thin against thick"
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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In kempo, there is a phrase "circle beats line, and line beats circle", which sounds very similar to your first one.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Hi,
its been years since I posted.
Just wondering, if other MA, modern or traditional, has similar teaching principal with ours, which is in form of sentence.
just for example:

"straight against oblique, oblique against straight".
one of the application of that is like when we receive attack from north to south, then we block, counter or move from center to north east/north west/south east/south west.

or "keep the dead dead, change what is still alive".
one of the application is like when we are in arm bar, we keep our arm to be in stalemate, and move our body to be in a position that the arm bar became ineffective.

anyone else has similar principles of teaching?
Small to large, large to small. (Use a connection to a small mass - the hand, via wristlock, perhaps - to move a large mass. And use a large mass - your weight shift - against that small mass. This also translates to a principle of counters - counter a small limb movement with a weight shift, counter a large mass movement with a redirection from a limb.)

There are others I use, but most of them would be difficult to explain without showing the technique referenced. My current favorite is "Pacman eats first." This is a reminder that any technique that's a response to a grip, where we want to keep that grip, we have to grab it early in the movement. The Pacman reference is there because students often forget to use their thumbs. If I ever get younger students, I'll need a new way to say this.
 

Gerry Seymour

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that is an interesting way of teaching, thank you for sharing :) It leave some room for interpretation maybe?? you have others like this?
I like principle statements that leave room for interpretation. It makes people think, and leaves room for the art to shift as students figure out efficiencies.
 
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Reedone816

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Small to large, large to small. (Use a connection to a small mass - the hand, via wristlock, perhaps - to move a large mass. And use a large mass - your weight shift - against that small mass. This also translates to a principle of counters - counter a small limb movement with a weight shift, counter a large mass movement with a redirection from a limb.)

There are others I use, but most of them would be difficult to explain without showing the technique referenced. My current favorite is "Pacman eats first." This is a reminder that any technique that's a response to a grip, where we want to keep that grip, we have to grab it early in the movement. The Pacman reference is there because students often forget to use their thumbs. If I ever get younger students, I'll need a new way to say this.
The way you describe it being executed seems similar with another principle. [emoji3]
The difference is only we never grab, since we believe grabbing will make the opponent aware thus creating resistance, so instead we just stick our palm or the V part between the thumb and the second finger enveloping the wrist.

Sent from my Lenovo A7010a48 using Tapatalk
 

Gerry Seymour

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The way you describe it being executed seems similar with another principle. [emoji3]
The difference is only we never grab, since we believe grabbing will make the opponent aware thus creating resistance, so instead we just stick our palm or the V part between the thumb and the second finger enveloping the wrist.

Sent from my Lenovo A7010a48 using Tapatalk
We actually depend upon their resistance in several techniques. If I grab someone, they have one of two likely reactions: try to take their hand back (pulling), or attack with the other hand (punching). Possibly both. The pull falls immediately into the desired technique, so their "resistance" actually assists the technique. The punch can change their structure, and might lead to something different. Probably they were gripping to punch with the other hand, anyway, so their pulling in with the gripping hand can take some of the structure from the punch and give me more to work with. If I get my ideal response, they get focused on getting loose, rather than attacking.
 
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Reedone816

Reedone816

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We actually depend upon their resistance in several techniques. If I grab someone, they have one of two likely reactions: try to take their hand back (pulling), or attack with the other hand (punching). Possibly both. The pull falls immediately into the desired technique, so their "resistance" actually assists the technique. The punch can change their structure, and might lead to something different. Probably they were gripping to punch with the other hand, anyway, so their pulling in with the gripping hand can take some of the structure from the punch and give me more to work with. If I get my ideal response, they get focused on getting loose, rather than attacking.
Well then that is the difference, we usually put one arm to hold/keep while other hand create a change in opponent condition to a weaken position before we finish the opponent by grappling or by striking.
We only trying to fish for resistance when the opponent already resist, so we tried to make the opponent change the way they resist, then in the time window when they shift their resistance position is when we get in to make change.
Just like in abbot and costello, when we entice them with our right hand, we smack them with our left.

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Jenna

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The Pacman reference is there because students often forget to use their thumbs. If I ever get younger students, I'll need a new way to say this.
I like that your younger students are from the 1980s!! :) for your millennials could call it Call of Duty Black Ops grip haha :p just kiddin witcha
 

Bill Mattocks

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This is what i heard a lot, even though i don't understand it [emoji28]

Sent from my Lenovo A7010a48 using Tapatalk

It refers mostly to receiving incoming attacks. When they attack hard, use a soft technique. When they attack with a soft technique, go hard on them.
 
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Reedone816

Reedone816

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It refers mostly to receiving incoming attacks. When they attack hard, use a soft technique. When they attack with a soft technique, go hard on them.
Then it similar with thick against thin, thin against thick...[emoji1]
Not the same but similar might be.

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Gerry Seymour

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Well then that is the difference, we usually put one arm to hold/keep while other hand create a change in opponent condition to a weaken position before we finish the opponent by grappling or by striking.
We only trying to fish for resistance when the opponent already resist, so we tried to make the opponent change the way they resist, then in the time window when they shift their resistance position is when we get in to make change.
Just like in abbot and costello, when we entice them with our right hand, we smack them with our left.

Sent from my Lenovo A7010a48 using Tapatalk

We do that with some techniques, as well. Competing principles that complement each other.

By the way, the bolded part matches up with one of my principles: "Strike in the void."
 

Gerry Seymour

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I like that your younger students are from the 1980s!! :) for your millennials could call it Call of Duty Black Ops grip haha :p just kiddin witcha
My youngest student at present was born in the '70's. I seem to attract a more...mature crowd. Everyone is between 40 and 55. I keep saying I need some 20- and 30-year-olds, so we have someone who can take the hard falls without clicking (the sound of all our knees when we stand).
 

Bill Mattocks

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This is one I play with, too. So far, I've found precious few examples where it wasn't effective.

One of the principles I have been taught which I find to always be effective is this: "A person's unbalance is the same as a weight." I always try to steal my opponent's balance. Even a minor disruption makes strikes, throws, blocks, etc, more effective. Take their balance in a big way, they fall down. Take it in a small way, it interrupts their flow in ways they cannot react to quickly enough.

Basic test; punch a willing uke. Now pull his arm towards you slightly with your free hand and punch again. Same power, same speed. Let him tell you which hurt more.
 

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