Prejudice World-Wide

[celtic_crippler]

I wonder if Madonna expected such a prejudiced response from a non-American crowd?

BUCHAREST, Romania - At first, fans politely applauded the Roma performers sharing a stage with Madonna. Then the pop star condemned widespread discrimination against Roma, or Gypsies — and the cheers gave way to jeers.
The sharp mood change that swept the crowd of 60,000, who had packed a park for Wednesday night's concert, underscores how prejudice against Gypsies remains deeply entrenched across Eastern Europe.
Despite long-standing efforts to stamp out rampant bias, human rights advocates say Roma probably suffer more humiliation and endure more discrimination than any other people group on the continent.
Sometimes, it can be deadly: In neighboring Hungary, six Roma have been killed and several wounded in a recent series of apparently racially motivated attacks targeting small countryside villages predominantly settled by Gypsies.

Entire Article

Do gypsies qualify for Affirmative Action in Europe?

...wait...does Europe have anything like Affirmative Action?

 

[CoryKS]

Reminds me of the time Dave Mustaine caught hell in Ireland for registering his opinion on their problems. Look, if you're an entertainer just passing through, don't go to someone else's country and start telling them how to run it. They won't appreciate it. Sing your little songs and go home.

 

[Tez3]

I wonder if Madonna expected such a prejudiced response from a non-American crowd?



Entire Article

Do gypsies qualify for Affirmative Action in Europe?

...wait...does Europe have anything like Affirmative Action?

Firstly what do you know about the Roma?
I'm not sure if you could call the response prejudiced more that the Roma/gypies/travellers are deeply unpopular for a number of reasons some of them reasonable some of them not.
Madonna is beng blinkered in many respects, I bet she didn't condemn the Roma's customs of marrying their daughters off at 12.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/may/30/europeanunion.broadcasting

Nor is she having to pay for their upkeep when they come over here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/680383.stm
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view...life-in-Britain-after-they-are-told-Get-a-job

 

[celtic_crippler]

Firstly what do you know about the Roma?
I'm not sure if you could call the response prejudiced more that the Roma/gypies/travellers are deeply unpopular for a number of reasons some of them reasonable some of them not.
Madonna is beng blinkered in many respects, I bet she didn't condemn the Roma's customs of marrying their daughters off at 12.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/may/30/europeanunion.broadcasting

Nor is she having to pay for their upkeep when they come over here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/680383.stm
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view...life-in-Britain-after-they-are-told-Get-a-job

Sounds like good reasons to kill them to me.

In all seriousness, it looks like you got some similar problems across the pond.

 

[Big Don]

How about:
SHUT UP AND PERFORM!

 

[still learning]

Hello, Teach Hate? ....everyone around them...will learn to hate!

Role models...are our Parents/Guardians/ and friends....all teach the younger ones....

ARE you a good role model? .....the world sure needs more of them...

Aloha, .....teach? ....goodness!

 

[Tez3]

Hitler killed a great many gypsies as well.

There is a big problem with the Roma, it's caused by both sides with right and wrong also being on both sides but Madonnas ignorant rant is only going to make things worse.
There's a lot of bad feeling against gypsies here and in Europe which isn't going to be dispelled by one pop stars bleeding heart...does she really care anyway?
In parts of Europe begging on the street is legal and considered by some to be a valid way to make a living, in the UK it's against the law and is regarded as not a decent way to make your living. Many come from Eastern Europe though not all are Roma and beg here often, they can be very intimidating and violent at times. There is also a vary lax attitude to drink driving and crime, it's causing huge problems and great cost to our local communities.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/21111/Police-debate-immigrants-and-crime

All these problems of course are grist to the mills of the racists here and in Europe so we are going round in circles all the time.

 

[Carol]

What ever happened to stars being entertaining?

 

[seasoned]

What ever happened to stars being entertaining?

Once some of them become very, very, famous, something within them surfaces. They feel this sense of power over their following, and though misguided, causes them to push agenda's because of the captive audience.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think Celtic Crippler wanted people to look at prejudice world wide. In my travels around the world I have witnessed prejudice and discrimination everywhere. How do we change that?

 

[chrispillertkd]

I wonder if Madonna expected such a prejudiced response from a non-American crowd?

Who can say what she expected? Stars are so used to having people listen to them because they have a mic in front of them they tend to run off at the mouth about topics waaaaaay outside their area of expertise.

It's like my dad said once regarding actors: "If they don't have a script in front of them they should just not say anything."

I'm sure the people at the concert didn't want someone who isn't from their neck of the woods telling them what to do. I don't blame them; I didn't care for U2 telling me all the "problems" with America in the 80's. But hey, you tour through a country a couple times and you become an expert on what it needs to do in order to conform with your opinion!

Does that mean it's OK to discriminate against people? No, of course not. But maybe, just maybe, there's a time and a place for things. And a concert isn't a good time for a political statement.

Pax,

Chris

 

[celtic_crippler]

I think Celtic Crippler wanted people to look at prejudice world wide. In my travels around the world I have witnessed prejudice and discrimination everywhere. How do we change that?

Might as well ask the question, "how do you change human nature?"

One obvious thing that hinders change is that what one group considers socially acceptable is unacceptable to another group.

Without at least a well defined ettiquette that is acceptable to all you'll never get anywhere.

Perhaps as the world becomes smaller, through communications technologies, this will become possible in the future? Who knows? I think it's the cultural differences more so than the different skin colors that results in prejudiced treatment.

 

[Tez3]

Of course it's wrong to discriminate but Madonna has made a major faux pas by talking about a situation she's not got any understanding of. It shows probably that while finding an answer to discrimination isn't easy, it's far easier to see what shouldn't be done.
In the specific case of Romania there are immense problems for the whole country which is significantly poorer and more backward than it's neighbours. Horrific stories of the orphanages and the abuse of handicapped people were common, poverty is rife with government systems and public services sadly lacking after the fall of communism there in 1989. It's been a very hard uphill battle to get where they are now. The Roma themselves have their own class system with the bottom layer being very poor and looked down upon by all so again you have discrimination.
The EU is trying to address problems of the Roma in Romania, how successful this will be remains to be seen as the Roma themselves, as we have found out here, often regard themselves as not having to take notice of authorities whether well disposed toards them or not, they often regard themselves as above laws of which ever country they are in which as you can imagine causes problems.

http://www.rroma.ro/

 

[CoryKS]

Of course it's wrong to discriminate but Madonna has made a major faux pas by talking about a situation she's not got any understanding of.

This. You know, you could probably get most people in the world to agree that prejudice is bad, but walking into the middle of a situation and saying "Prejudice bad, don't do it" isn't anything like a solution. The world's a complex place, and believe it or not that elegantly simple fix that you hashed out over the course of minutes on the tour plane over here isn't going to help.

It's depressing, really. I mean, if the kind of staggering genius that allows someone to string together 3-4 minutes worth of sound isn't sufficient to save the world, then what is?

 

[Tez3]

This. You know, you could probably most people in the world to agree that prejudice is bad, but walking into the middle of a situation and saying "Prejudice bad, don't do it" isn't anything like a solution. The world's a complex place, and believe it or not that elegantly simple fix that you hashed out over the course of minutes on the tour plane over here isn't going to help.

It's depressing, really. I mean, if the kind of staggering genius that allows someone to string together 3-4 minutes worth of sound isn't sufficient to save the world, then what is?

True, the problem is too that while many people agree discimination is wrong they don't actually think they do it themselves!

 

[CoryKS]

True, the problem is too that while many people agree discimination is wrong they don't actually think they do it themselves!

That, plus the fact that any antagonism between one group and another looks like intolerance if you don't understand the issues underlying the problem.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Okay so Madonna inserted a foot in here mouth because she did not know all the complexities of the situation. (though honestly we do not know) How is that any different when someone from another country talks about racial prejudice in the United States. Or when someone talks about treatment of women in the middle east or when or when someone bemoans the treatment of aboriginies in Australia? (I could go on and on)

 

[CoryKS]

Okay so Madonna inserted a foot in here mouth because she did not know all the complexities of the situation. (though honestly we do not know) How is that any different when someone from another country talks about racial prejudice in the United States. Or when someone talks about treatment of women in the middle east or when or when someone bemoans the treatment of aboriginies in Australia? (I could go on and on)

It's no different, IMO. And that's a point of contention for me, so I can understand how the Romanians might have responded to Madonna. Domestic problems are family business.

 

[Tez3]

Well I think people in the UK and the rest of Europe can comment on the Roma situation as it affects us. We have a very large population of Romanian gyspies as well as those for other countries here who come here allegedly because of problems in there own countries, as we are paying for their upkeep I think we are entitled to look at and if necessary address problems caused by the situation.

With the situation of the Aborigines in Australia we do bear some responsiblity here in the UK.
As a woman I believe I also have the right to speak out against the ill treatment of my fellow women, I also believe that, as an adult, I have the responsibility to speak out on the abuse of children, whatever country they may be in and do what ever I can to help.
I don't think there can be barriers we cannot cross when it comes to the mistreatment of people, it was bad enough when America and the UK stood by allowing nothing to be said about Hitlers extermination programme, that should not happen again if we can help it.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Good, thoughtful dialogue is important regarding prejudice, racial, national or otherwise. Having the dialogue can get us to think about it and try to figure out what we can do to make the situation better. Human nature would indicate that no matter what prejudice, racism are around for good. (I do not see it disapearing) Yet by making it an issue we as people can hopefully learn from it.


Now Madonnas concert performance and speech brought some awareness to this and really is that a bad thing? Maybe some action can be taken to create a better situation!