Pre-1987 Kukkiwon Forms

bluepanther

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For some of the old timers that were there, from my understanding the Kukkiwon developed most of the Yudanja forms in 1987. Previous to that I believe just Koryo, Keumgang, and Taebaek were in use. So what did the Kukkiwon require for 4th, 5th, or above, if it only had the Palgwe and Taeguek sets and the 3 Yudanjas?
 

J. Pickard

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I'm not sure this is accurate. The newest official forms (not counting the tournament forms from a few years back) are the Taegeuk poomsae which were developed in 1971. The 9 yudanja poomsae were developed in 1967 along side the 8 palgwe poomsae. I'm sure they have gone through further development and changes since then but they were made in 67 not 87. Before that they did what are now colloquially referred to as "legacy hyung" which were variations on karate kata such as the tekki/naihanchi series (chulgi), Bassai dai (palsek), Empi (eunbi), and others. Some kwans still practice the legacy hyung along side the ITF tul and KKW poomsae.
 
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bluepanther

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I'm not sure this is accurate. The newest official forms (not counting the tournament forms from a few years back) are the Taegeuk poomsae which were developed in 1971. The 9 yudanja poomsae were developed in 1967 along side the 8 palgwe poomsae. I'm sure they have gone through further development and changes since then but they were made in 67 not 87. Before that they did what are now colloquially referred to as "legacy hyung" which were variations on karate kata such as the tekki/naihanchi series (chulgi), Bassai dai (palsek), Empi (eunbi), and others. Some kwans still practice the legacy hyung along side the ITF tul and KKW poomsae.
 
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bluepanther

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Ok, that makes more sense. So all 9 Yudanja forms were created pretty much simultaneously? Was Original Koryo part of the original 9 or was it before the other 8 were created and the modern Koryo was created with the other 8?
 

J. Pickard

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Ok, that makes more sense. So all 9 Yudanja forms were created pretty much simultaneously? Was Original Koryo part of the original 9 or was it before the other 8 were created and the modern Koryo was created with the other 8?
That I'm not so sure about.
 

HighKick

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I'm not sure this is accurate. The newest official forms (not counting the tournament forms from a few years back) are the Taegeuk poomsae which were developed in 1971. The 9 yudanja poomsae were developed in 1967 along side the 8 palgwe poomsae. I'm sure they have gone through further development and changes since then but they were made in 67 not 87. Before that they did what are now colloquially referred to as "legacy hyung" which were variations on karate kata such as the tekki/naihanchi series (chulgi), Bassai dai (palsek), Empi (eunbi), and others. Some kwans still practice the legacy hyung along side the ITF tul and KKW poomsae.
FWIW, I am not aware of any changes made to the forms/poomsae since their inception. They appear to be the same as far back as I have been able to search. What I do frequently see is changes at the instructor/school level. KKW worked at making a 'tournament standard' for judging poomsae. Great for the tournament scene, but not always good for application.
I love me some naihanchi hyungs, Bassai dai and Bassai sho. We also, practice the Pinon (Pyung Ahn) hyungs for color belts.
 

J. Pickard

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FWIW, I am not aware of any changes made to the forms/poomsae since their inception. They appear to be the same as far back as I have been able to search. What I do frequently see is changes at the instructor/school level. KKW worked at making a 'tournament standard' for judging poomsae. Great for the tournament scene, but not always good for application.
I love me some naihanchi hyungs, Bassai dai and Bassai sho. We also, practice the Pinon (Pyung Ahn) hyungs for color belts.
I can only think of a few very insignificant changes and they are mostly in Koryo. Koryo as we know it today was not the original koryo, but in the current Koryo the ready position used to be different (palms completely facing out), and on the middle section moving forward, bar2, the arc hand strike used to stay out and the front kick was aimed at the level of the strike but now KKW teaches it that after the archand, you pull your hands to your body in a low guard and then kick. The knife hand blocks in the horse stance in the last generation KKW forms videos (I think circa 2013) and the texts always showed the fingertips to be about chin level but current KKW standards has the fingertips on the knife hand block much lower at the shoulder level. These are all, in my opinion, not very significant but still changes none the less.

I too enjoy the old hyung/kata. bassai dai/palsekdae is one of my go to tournament forms.
 
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