Popularity: FMAs vs Other Arts

[geezer]

Ok, I'm not sure if this is a question or a rant. Here's the short of it. I practice and teach two arts, Ving Tsun and Eskrima. It's just a small, non-commercial group. But no matter what I do, interest in the Ving Tsun is 2 to 3 times greater than Eskrima. I don't teach this for a living, so what's my problem? Basically, just that I love doing Eskrima, and I'd really like to get more of my students involved. But there simply isn't the same level of interest! And it's not just me, either. I have friends in the area that do a variety of different FMA's. Some are really good. Not just instructor level good, but Master level good. And they seem to have the same problem. Too few students, not much dedication. It seems that there's way more interest in other arts ranging from the latest fads like MMA and BJJ, to Karate, Kung-fu, TKD, heck, you name it. What's up with that? Any thoughts?

 

[Blindside]

Getting whacked by a stick hurts more than getting punched?

Honestly, I know of several very experienced martial artists who don't like working kali because of the focus on deadly weapons. I think it has to do with either not liking the fairly practical approach that we take to weapon usage, or that it is simply to revealing of holes in their own system's defenses against the same.

 

[nerdette_007]

Eskrima is my first martial art, and I chose my school primarily because they offered it. I was surprised to find that its the smallest class by far, with sometimes only three of us on board...especially when kenpo and BJJ seem to draw a dozen students at the very least. So yes, I've noticed this as well.

I think its probably a combination of beginners feeling intimidated by the weaponry, and a general hesitance to study an "exotic" MA (as opposed to the familiar and typical stuff).

 

[geezer]

I think its probably a combination of beginners feeling intimidated by the weaponry, and a general hesitance to study an "exotic" MA (as opposed to the familiar and typical stuff).

One complaint I hear is that people don't want to be dependent on weapons. They want to learn empty-handed self defense arts. But I think this is bogus. When I demonstrate the art I always emphasize how our FMA concepts transition from blade to stick to empty-hands.

A better objection is that people have a limited amount of time and want to focus on their core art rather than spreading themselves too thin. That's a fair argument. But a bit hard to believe these days when so many people are all about mixing martial arts. Go figure...

 

[MJS]

Ok, I'm not sure if this is a question or a rant. Here's the short of it. I practice and teach two arts, Ving Tsun and Eskrima. It's just a small, non-commercial group. But no matter what I do, interest in the Ving Tsun is 2 to 3 times greater than Eskrima. I don't teach this for a living, so what's my problem? Basically, just that I love doing Eskrima, and I'd really like to get more of my students involved. But there simply isn't the same level of interest! And it's not just me, either. I have friends in the area that do a variety of different FMA's. Some are really good. Not just instructor level good, but Master level good. And they seem to have the same problem. Too few students, not much dedication. It seems that there's way more interest in other arts ranging from the latest fads like MMA and BJJ, to Karate, Kung-fu, TKD, heck, you name it. What's up with that? Any thoughts?

I have no real solid reason as to why its not as popular. Could be a number of reasons..things such as: people think its too violent, its not as cool as TKD, there aren't many kids in the class, people dont like the idea of using weapons, etc. I could go on, but you get my point.

What they fail to see, is that the FMAs are a weapon based art, so duh, of course weapons will be a focus. I think they may also fail to see the fact that much of the empty hand and weapon disarms, can all be interchangable.

There may not be 1001 FMA mcdojos around, like we see with some other arts, but fact remains, we do have dedicated schools all over the place, filled with groups of people, that enjoy training and teaching the art.

Thats all that matters to me. IMO, I dont see the FMAs dying any too soon.

 

[geezer]

There may not be 1001 FMA mcdojos around, like we see with some other arts, but fact remains, we do have dedicated schools all over the place, filled with groups of people, that enjoy training and teaching the art.

Thats all that matters to me. IMO, I dont see the FMAs dying any too soon.

Yeah... I guess I should consider the quality of the student versus the quantity. It's hard to get new people involved, and a lot of folks try it once and never come back, but the few who do continue with the FMAs tend to be really committed.

 

[MichaelJB]

Hey Geez - It may help open some peoples' eyes to take a swing at them while they are using their preferred martial art. I did that with someone who wanted to try out his Aikido against me. Luckily for him, I opted to use a padded stick. He learned very quickly that, without major changes in his movements, he wasn't able to catch my hands as I struck - something he had no problem with during his classes. Unfortunately for him, the changes he made created other opportunities for me to hit him.

But then someone already mentioned that there are many out there who'd rather not find out something like this about their art or their personal skill level...

 

[Arnis7Tres5]

Hi,

I'm new here. My background's in Arnis 7-3-5, Balintawak, and now since coming to the States, PTK.

I think the lack of interest is legitimate. And I think a lot of it comes from the fact that most FMA instructors are sub par.

I have attended seminars and demos here and the Philippines, and what I've noticed is that FMA is being taught like 1980s aerobics, only with sticks.

Demos are usually with instructors where two people hit sticks, then one is defeated, then the other twirls his sticks around rapidly, while the other just stands there.

So the real FMA isn't getting to the would-be students or other martial artists, because it's being misrepresented. Look at MMA, kickboxing, even other East Asian arts now, they spar and get dirty. Before we start hitting other martial artists with sticks, we should look into ourselves first.

This is just my opinion.

 

[MJS]

Hi,

I'm new here. My background's in Arnis 7-3-5, Balintawak, and now since coming to the States, PTK.

I think the lack of interest is legitimate. And I think a lot of it comes from the fact that most FMA instructors are sub par.

I have attended seminars and demos here and the Philippines, and what I've noticed is that FMA is being taught like 1980s aerobics, only with sticks.

Demos are usually with instructors where two people hit sticks, then one is defeated, then the other twirls his sticks around rapidly, while the other just stands there.

So the real FMA isn't getting to the would-be students or other martial artists, because it's being misrepresented. Look at MMA, kickboxing, even other East Asian arts now, they spar and get dirty. Before we start hitting other martial artists with sticks, we should look into ourselves first.

This is just my opinion.

IMO, its sad when this happens in any art. This is probably the #1 reason why people question some arts. Its bad enough that many already have a distorted view of the martial arts in general, but when they see nothing but garbage, it does nothing but solidify that notion.

Then again, just because there are a few jokers in the FMAs, I dont think ALL FMA people should be lumped in with them. Fortunately there are people/groups out there that're the real deal.

 

[Arnis7Tres5]

MJS and all,

I don't mean to say that FMA as a whole is now sub par. I simply mean that many (too many) are not qualified to teach and they are the ones introducing the world to FMA and its culture.

Perception is everything. If I'm studying Karate and some one tells me how deadly FMA is and then I get a stick twirling extravaganza, with all the BS stories to boot, then my perception will define FMA. And you can't blame them for not being interested when this happens.

 

[MJS]

MJS and all,

I don't mean to say that FMA as a whole is now sub par. I simply mean that many (too many) are not qualified to teach and they are the ones introducing the world to FMA and its culture.

Perception is everything. If I'm studying Karate and some one tells me how deadly FMA is and then I get a stick twirling extravaganza, with all the BS stories to boot, then my perception will define FMA. And you can't blame them for not being interested when this happens.

No worries. Thats not how I took your post at all. Sorry if I gave that impression.

 

[geezer]

Hey Geez - It may help open some peoples' eyes to take a swing at them while they are using their preferred martial art. I did that with someone who wanted to try out his Aikido against me.

Hahahahahahahahaha! ahem... Sorry Mike. Nothing against Aikido... I enrolled my boy in an Aikido class. He loves it, and the instructor is awesome. But the thought of some guy going up against your stick-work empty-handed with with what typically passes for Aikido just really brings some funny images into my mind. I wish I'd been there.

Anyway, great to have you on this forum! Now, regarding the original topic of FMA popularity, how are your classes going? And are you guys still interested in getting together for some stick sparring sessions?

 

[geezer]

Hi,

I'm new here. My background's in Arnis 7-3-5, Balintawak, and now since coming to the States, PTK.

Hey Arnis735--Welcome to the FMA subforum! This FMA dept. is one of the less visited sub-forums on this site, so I'm naturally enthusiastic when we get a couple of new guys posting. Out here in Phoenix we've got some Balintawak players and some people who've studied Pekiti, but I'm in the dark about Arnis 7-3-5. Ok, I know it's off topic but what can you tell us about what you do?

 

[Arnis7Tres5]

Hello to you geezer and thank you.

7-3-5, comes from 7 angles of attack, 3 thrusts and 5 blocks. I studied it as a child in Tarlac, Philippines. It is stick focused, but the old man who taught me, who was our neighbor, Mang Pedring was an active guerilla during the Japanese occupation, and he was known for having cut down many Japanese during those war years with his Samurai sword taken from a Japanese officer.

It's not as technical as Balintawak and it's not as robust as PTK, I think it was rather pretty simple and that was the beauty of what Mang Pedring taught. We hit tires and tree trunks, with different kinds of sticks and we sparred. And that was it.

To connect it to the subject at hand, we did witness various challenges, from friendly, sportsman-like matches to really treacherous type fights. I think this is where quality control of the FMA have always been. And when this was done away with, the quality of teachers went down and this is the main reason for the lack of interest.

 

[geezer]

To connect it to the subject at hand, we did witness various challenges, from friendly, sportsman-like matches to really treacherous type fights. I think this is where quality control of the FMA have always been. And when this was done away with, the quality of teachers went down and this is the main reason for the lack of interest.

You know, the same is true of other martial arts too. Take away the "uncivilized" challenge matches, and you take away the reality. That's probably why the interest in MMA is increasing while interest in traditional martial arts is decreasing. Even though MMA bouts are a sport, and may not be a true reflection of what would work in a real-life encounter, at least people can see the stuff "tested". Meanwhile, without such "testing" TMAs seem to become more and more removed from reality with each passing generation. This is also happening with FMAs in modern times. The last generation that actually used this stuff, mainly the Filipino heroes who resisted the Japanese during WWII, has almost entirely passed. Will the FMAs now evolve (or devolve) into a non-functional, ritualistic artform.... some sort of Filipino equivalent of Japanese Budo? Hmmm... I think topic this calls for a new thread. Please join me there.

 

[MichaelJB]

Hahahahahahahahaha! ahem... Sorry Mike. Nothing against Aikido... I enrolled my boy in an Aikido class. He loves it, and the instructor is awesome. But the thought of some guy going up against your stick-work empty-handed with with what typically passes for Aikido just really brings some funny images into my mind. I wish I'd been there.

Anyway, great to have you on this forum! Now, regarding the original topic of FMA popularity, how are your classes going? And are you guys still interested in getting together for some stick sparring sessions?

lol...I have nothing against Aikido either. In fact my father received his shodan directly from O-Sensei a little before I was born so I've always had an interest in the art. But like you stated, in many cases what goes for <state art here> nowadays tends to leave a lot to be desired.

Classes are going ok. We're ready anytime for anything Eskrima related when you are...just let me know.

 

[geezer]

Classes are going ok. We're ready anytime for anything Eskrima related when you are...just let me know.

Honestly, Jeff hasn't pushed the sparring, so I may have to just visit your group myself and endure a few beatings, until I get a little better at it. --Steve

 

[K831]

Honestly, I know of several very experienced martial artists who don't like working kali because of the focus on deadly weapons. I think it has to do with either not liking the fairly practical approach that we take to weapon usage, or that it is simply to revealing of holes in their own system's defenses against the same.

But then someone already mentioned that there are many out there who'd rather not find out something like this about their art or their personal skill level...

I think its probably a combination of beginners feeling intimidated by the weaponry, and a general hesitance to study an "exotic" MA (as opposed to the familiar and typical stuff).

I people think its too violent

I think the above sum it up.

 

[billc]

Some thoughts on why the FMA are not as popular as other arts.
First, I think that firearms training and the FMA are the most serious arts for actual self-defense. If you encounter drunks at a ball game or party, or your husband or boyfriend beats you up, most of the time they do this with their bare hands. The regular empty hand arts may be helpful in de-escalating these situations. When the drunk uses a bottle, or when the husband/boyfriend decides to kill their wife/girlfriend, they rarely do so with just their bare hands. Serious life threatening or life changing self-defense encounters will involve an ambush with a weapon, a gun, a knife or a club of some sort.
Here in chicago, just recently, two women, one from Ireland, were attacked by a drug addict who hit them both in the head with a baseball bat. The gangs in American cities do not spend hours, days and years training their gang members in the intricacies of unarmed combat. They give the 15 year old a 9mm and send him out to kill. In the U.K., their teenage criminals are stabbing people left and right because they are having a hard time getting guns.
Now, with this info. we get to the heart of why FMA are not as popular as other arts. Most people are not serious about self-defense when they enter the martial arts, a lot of people go into the arts on a lark or becuase they are curious. Most also leave. These people see the arts from the viewpoint of popular media and popular media usually shows empty hand practitioners. Boxing, and mixed martial arts are very popular now, Bruce Lee was popular when I was a kid. The number of Nunchakku in schools during the bruce lee age were incredible. The television show Leverage, has a martial arts guy in it and he always throws away any weapon he gets his hands on, for example.
Most people going into the martial arts take into account the rude drunk and not the serious career criminal who uses violence without thought, or remorse. This steers them once again into empty hand arts. They also may reason, I am not going to have a 2 foot stick on me and I would not bash a rude drunk with a club. This goes double for a knife. Most people do not see themselves pulling a knife and stabbing the rude drunk to death. Because they are not serious about self-defense, they do not see the value of training with the weapons that they will likely face in a serious life threatening or changing encounter. On top of this, if you do train in FMA, a real instructor will tell you, if you are faced with a knife or club, the first thing you do is run away. This is easily understood, but once again, the rude drunk is seemingly less of a run away from it situation.
Empty hand arts are probably less threatening to the uninformed as well. These are just some random thoughts.

 

[billc]

Another thought from the above ones, people in BJJ or MMA or karate who stick with it over a long period may not be as concerned with actual self-dense as the people who focus on firearms in particular and FMA in general. They tend to be young, strong and male, although this is not an absolute. They may also have not experienced or thought about real violence to the same degree as shooters and FMA students.