Poll: For Instructors

[John Bishop]

With discussions on subjects like honesty, intregrity, rank, and such, the discussions have addressed the effect monetary gain has on these things. I was wondering the business status of some of the instructors here. And how they feel about martial arts instruction as a business or vocation.

 

[A.R.K.]

Good thread!

I am fortunate to be employed full time with my agency and part time Instructing at the local college. I don't have a commercial school, we teach in a vacant bldg that one of my assistants kindly offered for our use. That is mainly for the off-duty folks. We charge very, very little but have managed to accumulate some nice mats, bags and assorted training weapons. I have my assistants to thank for that in a very big way.

In addition DAC and I will be teaching in our church starting this Saturday and as of right now will do so two days a week to start. That will be at no charge.

I see no problem with an Instructor having this as primary or only means of income. As long as he/she is providing a genuine service and is concerned with the well being of the student. It is the 'laugh all the way to the bank' that I [and most of us] have a problem with.

I personally teach because I love it and wish to not only pass on what I've been fortunate enough to learn but also my experiences. And I find that the more I teach, the more I learn. In fact I've learned more teaching than by learning if that makes any sense. It's just not in me to make a business out of it.

:asian:

 

[DAC..florida]

I have a full time job and teach two classes a week for A.R.K. at our 1st location and as mentioned above I also teach at our church, I also take two classes a week!

John,

this is a great idea for a thread, cant wait to see how it turns out!

:asian:

 

[Damian Mavis]

hmm I don't see an option for my situation... I rent out space at 3 locations (community centres and gyms) and teach martial arts full time. I don't actually have a commercial site.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[jukado1]

I currently work full time as a security officer at a casino and only occessionaly get to teach at all, but see nothing wrong with a martial arts instructor making a decent wage at teaching. and if they are a good business person there is nothing wrong with making an obsene amount of money, AS long as the indivduel student is recieving their moneys worth, for point of refrence when i started training in 1959, my instrucors price's were, 12 one hour classes for =$29.50 or 30 one hour classes for =$59.50 or if you wanted to join the club, with unlimited classes it was $100.00 per year. so i do have a problum with schools that charge $100.00 or more per month only to run the student through like cattle, ( ie. your hour is over, see you next week ) sorry for rambaling on.

 

[James Kovacich]

I have something similar to share. Back in the ‘70’s my primary instructor only charged $5 a month (for 5 days a week) and the going rate was around $10 a month for 1 day a week, $20 a month for 2 days a week, $30 a month for 3 days a week… He always believed that anyone should be allowed to train that wanted to train. That mentality hit home for me considering that neither my parents nor I ever had much money and many a day I had to walk several miles to and from class.

Well I have in the works, with the help of my current students to start teaching in Fresno, Ca. and the Sacramento area too with San Jose as my base. This will build a strong foundation for my training association that is in its infancy. I have family members around the Bay Area and Gilroy and Watsonville and San Diego that hopefully will prove to productive assets.

So YES, I want to make a decent living from the arts but NO, I will not ever be expensive. My money will be earned without bastardizing myself or the arts!


:asian:

 

[Shinzu]

i teach once a week on saturdays at my schools. i would like to do more, but at this point i am enjoying it

 

[lvwhitebir]

Originally posted by akja
Back in the ‘70’s my primary instructor only charged $5 a month (for 5 days a week) and the going rate was around $10 a month for 1 day a week, $20 a month for 2 days a week, $30 a month for 3 days a week…

I just ran these numbers through an inflation calculator. $30 back in 1970 translates to $141.59 in 2002! So really, charging for $100 a month now is a discount to what you paid!

WhiteBirch

 

[lvwhitebir]

Originally posted by jukado1
for point of refrence when i started training in 1959, my instrucors price's were, 12 one hour classes for =$29.50 or 30 one hour classes for =$59.50

For the cost before inflation, the 12 one-hour classes were $2.46 per class. After inflation, that's now $14.72 per class. At 12 classes, that's $176.64 today! $100 per month doesn't seem to bad.

You can't figure what you paid to today's prices directly. You *have* to account for inflation. You also have to account for what the public believes is the best price for what you're offering. If you think that what you teach is only worth $30 a month, the public will as well, whether or not it actually is... You have the right to charge a "fair and reasonable" rate for your services.

I know I pay about $150 a month for car insurance. That's throw away unless I get into an accident. Is $150 a month worth it to perhaps save my life, whether through self-defense or priceless exercise worth it?

WhiteBirch

 

[lvwhitebir]

I own a commercial school and currently have an outside job. I can't wait to have the school be my only employment. I've been working 75 hours a week for the past 3 years to keep it running and pay all my bills. I get up at 5 am and get home at 9:30 pm. I spend an hour of quality time with the wife before I have to hit the sack again.

Believe me, while I love teaching, it's incredibly difficult to do it with an outside job. Teaching full time would be my life's goal.

I have about 70 wonderful students and charge what I consider a reasonable rate for my services (averaging about $70). To pay all my bills and go full time without raising my rates, I would have to have 3x the number of students, which would also give me 3x the headaches I face today... I'd rather have fewer students with a higher rate than the other way around.

WhiteBirch

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by lvwhitebir
I just ran these numbers through an inflation calculator. $30 back in 1970 translates to $141.59 in 2002! So really, charging for $100 a month now is a discount to what you paid!

WhiteBirch

I paid $5 a month for 5 days a week with my primary instructor Greg Lagera of Fremont, Ca. The numbers you ran were with my Hapkido Instructor O Nam Ku of Fremont, Ca. where I trained because of the location while I was in between Kajukenbo schools.

My basis for showing those numbers was to emphasize the deal it was to only have to pay $5 a month.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by lvwhitebir
I own a commercial school and currently have an outside job. I can't wait to have the school be my only employment. I've been working 75 hours a week for the past 3 years to keep it running and pay all my bills. I get up at 5 am and get home at 9:30 pm. I spend an hour of quality time with the wife before I have to hit the sack again.

Believe me, while I love teaching, it's incredibly difficult to do it with an outside job. Teaching full time would be my life's goal.

I have about 70 wonderful students and charge what I consider a reasonable rate for my services (averaging about $70). To pay all my bills and go full time without raising my rates, I would have to have 3x the number of students, which would also give me 3x the headaches I face today... I'd rather have fewer students with a higher rate than the other way around.

WhiteBirch

Or maybe less overhead although easier said than done.

:asian:

 

[Seig]

I have a small school, that some day I would like to see become my primary if not sole source of income. Unfortunately, because I am in a rural area that is somewhat of a D.C. suburb, we have felt the economy hit, badly. I work a full time job, midnights, as well as teach part-time at a local college. If I could get my enrollment to a steady 75 students per month, I could make a living. It seems to me that every time one of my short term goals is in sight, something happens that takes me back to square 2 or 3. On the up side, in the area I am in, in the past 6 or 7 years, 5 schools have come and gone in under a year, and I am now in the third month of my third year. We shall see.....

 

[RCastillo]

I live in a city of almost 300,000

The last time I had a group to really work with was back last summer. I had 8 people, and through numerous issues, they all faded out.(That was the high point) I taught at the YWCA for almost 3 years. It was a great location, but couldn't draw people in. Plus, the administration rarely supported me, and went through 4 Program Coordinators.(They're still hunting for one since May) I've also heard it many times before, "I don't teach children, and that is my downfall."(What I'm repeatedly told)

I continue to upgrade my equipment so as to make it inviting, like I invested 600 dollars for "Fist Gear." Since I do Kenpo, I consider it an important resource, so I have all the gear I need necessary to have a great program.

I've spent hundreds recently for advertising, plus I also get it free in the paper as well, one bite is all I got.

I'm a high school teacher, former coach. Got 2, they quit after Yellow.

I see other commercial schools around me, mainly TKD, they manage to do well. Why? because in one, you can get 1st Black in less than 2 years. Works well for kids, but I refuse to lower myself to that stuff.

I now rent space at a gym, where I don't expect to draw weightlifters.(I do lift myself) I pay 15 an hr, for twice a week.

I want the outsiders, but they don't come, not even for a free lesson. I have no test fees, don't nickel, and dime them to death, no associations fees, and still, zero.


I've also contemplated teaching TKD, since I'm proficient with that(3rd Dan, ITF) Maybe that'll work, but I'm running out of ideas.

I also did "Personal Trainning" for 3 yrs at home, it was air conditioned, matted, but not many pepple, and had a YP add for 3 yrs, that did not pay for itself.

My next step probably, will drop the idea of having my own club, and donate time to help another gentleman with his club. At least, I can help somebody.

In essence, I congratulate ALL of you Instructors out there that have been successful in your situations. I wish I had your luck, and blessed good fortune. I don't know how you do it to stay alive.

My apologies for frustrated ramblings, so thanks for hearing me out!
:asian:

 

[A.R.K.]

RCastillo,

Don't feel bad partner, many of us are in/or have been in the same boat. I've never had more than 15 or so students at one time. They fade away due to lack of discipline mainly. But I've always said I'd rather have half a dozen serious students who show up and train hard than 50 that are half arsed. As I mentioned before, I teach for the enjoyment not the money...cause there isn't any

To see the light go on for someone or to have them tell you they successfully defended themselves in a real world altercation is in my opinion more rewarding that a monthly tuition check. And I find I learn more by teaching as well. There are other rewards then $.

Take care.

:asian:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
RCastillo,

Don't feel bad partner, many of us are in/or have been in the same boat. I've never had more than 15 or so students at one time. They fade away due to lack of discipline mainly. But I've always said I'd rather have half a dozen serious students who show up and train hard than 50 that are half arsed. As I mentioned before, I teach for the enjoyment not the money...cause there isn't any

To see the light go on for someone or to have them tell you they successfully defended themselves in a real world altercation is in my opinion more rewarding that a monthly tuition check. And I find I learn more by teaching as well. There are other rewards then $.

Take care.

:asian:

Thanks, I can really go with what you said on that last paragraph. I'll keep beating the brushes for students!:asian:

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RCastillo
I live in a city of almost 300,000

The last time I had a group to really work with was back last summer. I had 8 people, and through numerous issues, they all faded out.(That was the high point) I taught at the YWCA for almost 3 years. It was a great location, but couldn't draw people in. Plus, the administration rarely supported me, and went through 4 Program Coordinators.(They're still hunting for one since May) I've also heard it many times before, "I don't teach children, and that is my downfall."(What I'm repeatedly told)

I continue to upgrade my equipment so as to make it inviting, like I invested 600 dollars for "Fist Gear." Since I do Kenpo, I consider it an important resource, so I have all the gear I need necessary to have a great program.

I've spent hundreds recently for advertising, plus I also get it free in the paper as well, one bite is all I got.

I'm a high school teacher, former coach. Got 2, they quit after Yellow.

I see other commercial schools around me, mainly TKD, they manage to do well. Why? because in one, you can get 1st Black in less than 2 years. Works well for kids, but I refuse to lower myself to that stuff.

I now rent space at a gym, where I don't expect to draw weightlifters.(I do lift myself) I pay 15 an hr, for twice a week.

I want the outsiders, but they don't come, not even for a free lesson. I have no test fees, don't nickel, and dime them to death, no associations fees, and still, zero.


I've also contemplated teaching TKD, since I'm proficient with that(3rd Dan, ITF) Maybe that'll work, but I'm running out of ideas.

I also did "Personal Trainning" for 3 yrs at home, it was air conditioned, matted, but not many pepple, and had a YP add for 3 yrs, that did not pay for itself.

My next step probably, will drop the idea of having my own club, and donate time to help another gentleman with his club. At least, I can help somebody.

In essence, I congratulate ALL of you Instructors out there that have been successful in your situations. I wish I had your luck, and blessed good fortune. I don't know how you do it to stay alive.

My apologies for frustrated ramblings, so thanks for hearing me out!
:asian:

An issue that I've experienced is to find a "balance" between what and who you teach and minimizing your overhead expenses.

Like my Sifu I teach privately. That does well for minimizing the overhead and it allows me "control" who I teach as well as who I personally train with. I too, do not teach kids, nor do I have any desire to unless they are family or friends, other wise its not worth the trade off.

I can't give specifics because I have to much unfinished buisness but I have in the works a buiness plan to allow me to keep my overhead down. I see that you're already there and are looking for more students.

Well I guess thats where the "balancing" your overhead and your "ethics" comes in.

I personally think its better to work on the "overhead." Also since you are qualified. Why don't you teach 2 classes, 1 Kenpo and 1 TKD. You'll double the possibilitie of new students. Your rent is $15 an hour. Thats not bad at all. I know people who have paid $30 an hour. Maybe you can do 2 hours in a row, teach 2 separate classes and offer you current students a great deal to train in both classes.

That would leave you with 2 classes up and running to recruit new students into. Maybe offer a discount to any student who takes both classes. Trial and error. Its the same with your advertising. Some forms of advertisement just don't work. Your money goes much farther putting it on something more solid like yourself!

:asian:

 

[A.R.K.]

A bit off topic perhaps, but AKJA mentioned private instruction. For those that do private instruction, how do you like it as opposed to the larger class? What do you charge? How did you get started? How many private lessons do you do? Is it the same curriculem as a larger class?

:asian:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
A bit off topic perhaps, but AKJA mentioned private instruction. For those that do private instruction, how do you like it as opposed to the larger class? What do you charge? How did you get started? How many private lessons do you do? Is it the same curriculem as a larger class?

:asian:

I'm heading that way now. For Kenpo, I really prefer it because I can pay attention to a certain group rather than several levels at the same time. I intend to do semi private as well, for groups of at least 3, provided they are on the same page.

I 'll charge 35 an hr, half of that goes to room rental, if it wasn't for that, it'd be 20 an hr.

I'm basing it on the Tracy System, and it would be a mininum at of least once a week.

The curriculum will be the same, unless they don't want to go for rank.
:asian:

 

[Marcus Buonfiglio]

I own my own buisness. Teach out of my garage two nights a week removing the contents of the garage out to the driveway ie: bikes, motorcycle, ping pong table, air compressor, chairs, work out equipment, etc, etc. Vaccuum the carpet and clean the mirror (a huge sucker) if necessary. For this I charge my students nothing. However the agreement is that when I have my instructor out for seminars they help pay the upfront money. I also have some students in the Eureka area (7 hr drive) that I have started teaching once every two months for 5 hrs on a Saturday. For that I charge $100.00 each. I pay my own gas (aprox. $80.00) and we get in some good shooting. I charge them to help offset the $500-750.00 I loose in earnings by taking the day off to drive. Never got payed for the 13 years that I taught at my previous instructors commercial dojo. I got a reduced rate on my lessons. Although he was definitely getting the better part of the bargain as I was teaching 4-5 days a week I didn't care because I was and still am passionate about Kenpo and get tremendous enjoyment from passing on what I have learned.