Pipeline in Afganistan

Makalakumu

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Interesting research here. Apparently, the Taliban negotiated a deal in US companies to build a pipeline through Afgahnistan and Pakistan.

A senior delegation from the Taleban movement in Afghanistan is in the United States for talks with an international energy company that wants to construct a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan to Pakistan. A spokesman for the company, Unocal, said the Taleban were expected to spend several days at the company's headquarters in Sugarland, Texas. Taleban in Texas for Talks on Gas Pipeline, BBC News, December 4, 1997 (Sugarland is 22 miles outside Houston.)

The Taliban ministers and their advisers stayed in a five-star hotel and were chauffeured in a company minibus. Their only requests were to visit Houston's zoo, the NASA space centre and Omaha's Super Target discount store to buy stockings, toothpaste, combs and soap. The Taliban, which controls two-thirds of Afghanistan and is still fighting for the last third, was also given an insight into how the other half lives. The men, who are accustomed to life without heating, electricity or running water, were amazed by the luxurious homes of Texan oil barons. Invited to dinner at the palatial home of Martin Miller, a vice-president of Unocal, they marvelled at his swimming pool, views of the golf course and six bathrooms. After a meal of specially prepared halal meat, rice and Coca-Cola, the hardline fundamentalists - who have banned women from working and girls from going to school - asked Mr. Miller about his Christmas tree. Caroline Lees, Oil Barons Court Taliban in Texas, The Telegraph (London), December 14, 1997.

And now we see the connection to the Bush Administration and his backers. Haliburton and Enron in particular.

On October 27, 1997, both Unocal and Halliburton issued press releases about their energy work in Turkmenistan. Halliburton Energy Services has been providing a variety of services in Turkmenistan for the past five years. Press Release, Halliburton Alliance Awarded Integrated Service Contract Offshore Caspian Sea In Turkmenistan, October 27, 1997. http://www.halliburton.com/news/archive/1997/hesnws_102797.jsp;

ASHGABAT, Turkmenistan, Oct. 27, 1997 - Six international companies and the Government of Turkmenistan formed Central Asia Gas Pipeline, Ltd. (CentGas) in formal signing ceremonies here Saturday. Press Release, Consortium Formed to Build Central Asia Gas Pipeline, October 27, 1997.

Dr. Zaher Wahab of Afghanistan, a professor in the US speaking at International Human Rights Day event, explained that Delta, Unocal as well as Russian, Pakistani and Japanese oil and gas companies have signed agreements with the Turkmenistan government, immediately north of Afghanistan, which has the fourth largest gas reserve in the world. Agreements also have been signed with the Taliban, allowing these oil and gas giants to pump Turkmenistan gas and oil through western Afghanistan to Pakistan, from which it then will be shipped all over the world. The energy consortium Enron plans to be one of the builders of the pipeline. Elaine Kelly, Northwest Groups Discuss Afghan, Iranian and Turkish Rights Violations, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, March 31, 1997.

The plan for the New American Century, constructed by ultra-conservative policy groups began in 1997 after all of these deals were made. This plan calls for an invasion in Iraq and in Afganistan to expidate these business deals and bring "democracy" to the region.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

and

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EC20Ak07.html

Can anyone say conflict of interest?

upnorthkyosa
 
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Makalakumu

Makalakumu

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Here is a list of the people who created the Plan for the New American Century.

Elliott Abrams
Gary Bauer
William J. Bennett
Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney
Eliot A. Cohen
Midge Decter
Paula Dobriansky
Steve Forbes
Aaron Friedberg
Francis Fukuyama
Frank Gaffney
Fred C. Ikle
Donald Kagan
Zalmay Khalilzad
I. Lewis Libby
Norman Podhoretz
Dan Quayle
Peter W. Rodman
Stephen P. Rosen
Henry S. Rowen
Donald Rumsfeld
Vin Weber
George Weigel
Paul Wolfowitz

See any familiar names? You should. These are all of the people who are going to make billions of the war in Afganistan and Iraq. It looks like their plans are coming to fruition and many of us are none the wiser.

upnorthkyosa
 

The Kai

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Unfortunatly it looks like the rich will get richer, while everyone else just bleeds.
 
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Makalakumu

Makalakumu

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upnorthkyosa said:
Elliott Abrams
Gary Bauer
William J. Bennett
Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney
Eliot A. Cohen
Midge Decter
Paula Dobriansky
Steve Forbes
Aaron Friedberg
Francis Fukuyama
Frank Gaffney
Fred C. Ikle
Donald Kagan
Zalmay Khalilzad
I. Lewis Libby
Norman Podhoretz
Dan Quayle
Peter W. Rodman
Stephen P. Rosen
Henry S. Rowen
Donald Rumsfeld
Vin Weber
George Weigel
Paul Wolfowitz

Homework assignment. Do a search on each of these names. Come back and report. Conflict of interest?
 

deadhand31

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Ok, quick update here. Unocal pulled out of the project in 1998. At that time, a consortium was signed, and Halliburton wasn't involved. The Western oil companies were actually looking for a way to bypass the Afghanistan. Those companies are not currently involved with the project. If those companies are not involved, how can Bush be there to try take money from said projects?

Want to see a source? Take a look.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2016340.stm

Considering that the Taliban is now no longer in control in Afghanistan, the deal signed in the consortium may be invalid. Anybody have any current info on this?
 
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Makalakumu

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Hmmm...Hamid Karzai = Old Unocal spokesperson. I don't think the deal's as dead as its reported.
 

deadhand31

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Ummm.... do you have ACTUAL info that's not put out by a 527 group? It's like asking for info on Kerry and getting moveon.org.

I mean, seriously. The names you have listed above are not even people on this website's staff! What I would like is actual info on the current status of the Afghani pipeline project. Do you have it, or not?

I did a site search and the word "pipe" doesn't appear anywhere on the site!!
 
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Makalakumu

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upnorthkyosa said:

I didn't get to finish my thought above. Poopy diapers called and I forgot. I apologize if my posting appeared flippant.

The site is a series of essays that describe exactly the political situation playing out. Afganistan is too unstable to build right now. The situation needs to be calmed down and an American friendly ruler needs to be installed first in order to get the project done. It is not a coincidence that Hamid Karzai is/was a Unocal spokesperson.

I'll post current sources in a bit. Thank you for your patience.

upnorthkyosa
 

TwistofFat

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http://www.pnl.gov/aisu/pubs/tapvatan.pdf

Folks - this is an interesting white paper from PNNL from the DoE. Not a left or right group (although I bet they employ people who vote and maybe even worked at Haliburton) and if you read page 5 (of 22) it gives a overview of the interests of Unocol, Parkistan, India and many others.

It looks like the oil actually comes from Turkmenistan and IS controlled by private (read oil companies) and governments. This is a huge consortium of money hunters including the World Bank.



Meanwhile TheNewsMexico.com has carried an Agence France-Presse story of 5/16/02 reporting that the World Bank Chief spoke on Kabul on 5/15/02 about his own efforts to promote the pipeline:

`World Bank chief James Wolfensohn said Wednesday he had held talks about financing a fuel pipeline to channel massive gas reserves from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to India or Pakistan. Wolfensohn, who was in the Afghan capital to open the financial institution's offices here and to confirm 100 million dollars of World Bank grants for the interim administration, said a number of companies had already expressed an interest in the project. Turkmenistan is reportedly estimated to have 159 trillion cubic feet (4.8 trillion cubic meters) of gas reserves, the 11th largest in the world. But its landlocked status and the 23 years of war in Afghanistan have scuppered previous plans to open up the reserves to the outside world. "I have spoken to a number of people concerning a possible pipeline from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan and either out through a port in Pakistan or through to India," Wolfensohn told reporters. "We have expressed interest in that but I think the principals need to discuss that further."' These announcements come at a time when the US (according to Stratfor on 5/15/02) is debating whether or not to help quell the dispute between the Karzai central government and the dissenting warlord Padsha Khan in Paktia Province. The problem is complicated by the fact that Padsha Khan's brother is the governor in Khost province, where the search for al-Qaeda has also been focused.

Complicated -yes. Conspiracy - I am sure someone can find it.
 
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Makalakumu

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upnorthkyosa said:
Here is a list of the people who created the Plan for the New American Century.

Elliott Abrams
Gary Bauer
William J. Bennett
Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney
Eliot A. Cohen
Midge Decter
Paula Dobriansky
Steve Forbes
Aaron Friedberg
Francis Fukuyama
Frank Gaffney
Fred C. Ikle
Donald Kagan
Zalmay Khalilzad
I. Lewis Libby
Norman Podhoretz
Dan Quayle
Peter W. Rodman
Stephen P. Rosen
Henry S. Rowen
Donald Rumsfeld
Vin Weber
George Weigel
Paul Wolfowitz

See any familiar names? You should. These are all of the people who are going to make billions of the war in Afganistan and Iraq. It looks like their plans are coming to fruition and many of us are none the wiser.

upnorthkyosa

This is not a 527 group. These people drafted PNAC. These are the neo-cons that have taken over the government.
 
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Makalakumu

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TwistofFat said:
Complicated -yes. Conspiracy - I am sure someone can find it.

Looks like you beat me to the punch. Conspiracy? What does this really mean? This deal isn't a very good conspiracy. Hell, it ain't secret by any means. The plans for it were in the works in 1998 and now we can see that they are coming to fruition. The real question is the conflict of interest. Is this a proper activity for elected officials to engage in, especially since they stand to gain so much off the backs of the military and the taxpayer. Another question is this, since when were profits a priority in the war on terror?
 
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Does anyone wonder why most of the Taliban escaped...

A Taliban envoy appealed to the Bush administration Monday to overlook his group's support of extremist Osama bin Laden and the destruction of priceless centuries-old Buddhist sculptures and lift sanctions on Afghanistan to help alleviate a humanitarian crisis threatening the lives of a million people. Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi delivered a letter from the Taliban for President Bush that called for better U.S.-Afghan relations and negotiations to solve the dispute over the Saudi-born Bin Laden. Robin Wright, Taliban Asks US to Lift its Economic Sanctions, Los Angeles Times, March 20, 2001.

The Town Hall forum was Hashemi's final meeting in a weeklong visit to California, where he spoke at several universities, including USC, UCLA and UC Berkeley. Later Thursday, he left for New York for another stop on his public relations tour before going to Washington, where he is scheduled to deliver a letter from his party to the Bush administration. Teresa Watanabe, Overture By Taliban Hits Resistance," Los Angeles Times, March 16, 2001.

And now we see that the Bush Administration did not care at all about Osama bin Laden, the reported reason we are in Afganistan.

Osama bin Laden has claimed credit for the attack on U.S. soldiers in Somalia in October 1993, which killed 18; for the attack on the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998, which killed 224 and injured nearly 5,000; and were linked to the attack on the U.S.S. Cole on 12 October 2000, in which 17 crew members were killed and 40 others injured. They have sought to acquire nuclear and chemical materials for use as terrorist weapons. Britain's Bill of Particulars New York Times, October 5, 2001.

Osama bin Laden, in recent years, has been America's most wanted terrorism suspect, with a $5 million reward on his head for his alleged role in the August 1998 truck bombings of two American embassies in East Africa that killed more than 200 people, as well as a string of other terrorist attacks Most recently, the F.B.I. has named Mr. bin Laden as a prime suspect in the suicide bombing of the American destroyer Cole, which was attacked in Aden harbor, 350 miles by road southwest of here, on Oct. 12, with the loss of 17 sailors' lives." John F. Burns, Where bin Laden Has Roots, His Mystique Grows, New York Times, December 31, 2000.

Here is a little more information regarding Hamid Karzai...Some of it is very recent.

Cool and worldly, Karzai is a former employee of US oil company Unocal -- one of two main oil companies that was bidding for the lucrative contract to build an oil pipeline from Uzbekistan through Afghanistan to seaports in Pakistan -- and the son of a former Afghan parliament speaker. Ilene R. Prusher, Scott Baldauf, and Edward Girardet, Afghan power brokers, Christian Science Monitor, June 10, 2002. http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0610/
p01s03e-wosc.html.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai, a former Unocal adviser, signed a treaty with Pakistani leader Pervez Musharraf and the Turkmen dictator Saparmurat Niyazov to authorize construction of a $3.2 billion gas pipeline through the Heart-Kandahar corridor in Afghanistan. Lutz Kleveman, Oil and the New Great Game," The Nation, February 16, 2004.

TRANSLATED FROM FRENCH: He was a consultant for the American oil company Unocal, while they studied the construction of a pipeline in Afghanistan." Chipaux Francoise, Hamid Karza簿, Une Large Connaissance Du Monde Occidental, Le Monde, December 6, 2001.en minutes.

Al-qaeda is out there planning to kill Americans and here we have a president picking targets in the War on Terror based on how much money his backers can rake in. This is not acceptable and it could very well result in people getting killed in this country.

upnorthkyosa
 

deadhand31

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Funny thing you neglect to mention in all of the articles containing Bush. THEY'RE BEFORE SEPTEMBER 11TH!!!!!!

If you read your article, it has NOTHING that says Bush actually DID lift the sanctions! It basically says he was willing to listen to an envoy of the Taliban in his appeal for a lifting of sanctions. What kind of leader would NOT listen to the appeal of a diplomatic envoy?
Did Bush lift those sanctions? No. These sanctions were in place because of Afghanistan's aid to al qaeda. We later found out, unfortunately, that these sanctions were not adequate. Was Bin Laden percieved as big of a threat pre-9/11? No.

Now, tell me, after those first few articles you presented, can you think of anything that might have happened in the United States to change the attitude towards terrorism? Let's see, the latest date on an article regarding Bush is... hmm, interesting... March 20, 2001. Let's go about 6 months in. What happened? Oh yeah, that little trade center incident. Maybe you overlooked that.

To say that the taliban escaped because Bush accepted letters from them is jumping the gun, don't you think?

Ok, I'll ask again. DO YOU HAVE EVIDENCE THAT WESTERN COMPANIES ARE CURRENTLY INVOLVED IN THE PIPELINE OR NOT??? I want to know what companies are currently involved in it.

And kyosa, as for Bush not taking care of Afghanistan because of the oil pipeline....

THE WESTERN COMPANIES PULLED OUT OF THE DEAL IN 1998!!!!! HE WASN'T EVEN PRESIDENT WHEN UNOCAL PULLED OUT!!! Let's see, Clinton was.... and all he did to get to Bin Laden was send two cruise missiles in, no follow up.... hmm, MAYBE CLINTON WANTED THAT PIPELINE, TOO!!!
 

deadhand31

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upnorthkyosa said:
This is not a 527 group. These people drafted PNAC. These are the neo-cons that have taken over the government.

Hmm, let's see... these people drafted up the following principles:

we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;


we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;


we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;


we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

These are the conspiratorial principles you are screaming about? God forbid!!
 
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deadhand31 said:
Ok, I'll ask again. DO YOU HAVE EVIDENCE THAT WESTERN COMPANIES ARE CURRENTLY INVOLVED IN THE PIPELINE OR NOT??? I want to know what companies are currently involved in it.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai, a former Unocal adviser, signed a treaty with Pakistani leader Pervez Musharraf and the Turkmen dictator Saparmurat Niyazov to authorize construction of a $3.2 billion gas pipeline through the Heart-Kandahar corridor in Afghanistan. Lutz Kleveman, Oil and the New Great Game," The Nation, February 16, 2004.

deadhand31 said:
THE WESTERN COMPANIES PULLED OUT OF THE DEAL IN 1998!!!!! HE WASN'T EVEN PRESIDENT WHEN UNOCAL PULLED OUT!!! Let's see, Clinton was.... and all he did to get to Bin Laden was send two cruise missiles in, no follow up.... hmm, MAYBE CLINTON WANTED THAT PIPELINE, TOO!!!

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, I don't have enough information to make that conjecture. The truth is that if you look through the PNAC document you find many letters writted to the Honerable President Clinton and signed by all of the names above. These letters beseech the President to follow the plan as stated, including the Iraq and Afganistan parts.

Bill Clinton basically ignored them and that is one of the reasons why the people on the above list hated him so much.

President Bush on the other hand, has many of the people in his cabinet. The rest have the President in their pockets. If there is any doubt anymore as to who (and what) is driving our foriegn policy, it should be erased.

I'll say again, PROFITS should not be a PRIORITY in the War on Terror.

upnorthkyosa
 
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Makalakumu

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This is all pretty political doublespeak. Allow me to me highlight a few key points...

we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;


we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;


we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;


we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

Connect the boldface statements. What do you think it means? The bottom line is that people need to pay more attention to this stuff. I don't think I've ever see a more egregious case of abuse of power and conflict of interest.
 

deadhand31

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But you're missing the point.... I want to know what companies are involved in this. Considering that western nations have looked to bypass Afghanistan since 1998, what western involvement is there in this pipeline? I've asked for you to provide this information, and all I get is rhetoric and conspiracy theories. This is just plain nuts. If you're going to accuse someone of making these deals just to make money, well, bring forth the financials! Who's making the pipeline?
 

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