Pick-ups = ugly judo?

[vankuen]

I have mixed feelings on this one. To me, any martial art should focus on practicality and functionality as the guiding principles of technique. Additionally, While I do think of Judo as having specific throwing methods where you put in the least amount of effort and obtain the most effective outcome--I also know that Judo--like many arts have guiding principles that can allow for innovation of new throws.

That said, many of the throws in the video were crap. In fact most of them were simply what I call panic throws...no technique...most of those pickups were flailing attempts at winning moreso that Judo's science of overcoming an opponent. There were some pretty obvious kata guruma's, and a couple of goshi style throws that I saw, but for the most part they were panic throws.

A good judo technique, regardless of whether it's new, old, or currently being developed, is something that can be repeated time and again. It is done through off balancing and setting up the opponent to obtain the throw, and not simply overpowering them as most competition mindsets are promoting. It's sad that you very rarely see any kind of kuzushi at all anymore. It's now become wrestling with a gi in that throws are being forced instead of being done with proper entry and timing.

But...that's just my opinion.

 

[Formosa Neijia]

That said, many of the throws in the video were crap. In fact most of them were simply what I call panic throws...no technique...most of those pickups were flailing attempts at winning moreso that Judo's science of overcoming an opponent. There were some pretty obvious kata guruma's, and a couple of goshi style throws that I saw, but for the most part they were panic throws.

...It's sad that you very rarely see any kind of kuzushi at all anymore. It's now become wrestling with a gi in that throws are being forced instead of being done with proper entry and timing.

But...that's just my opinion.

I cna kind of see where you're coming from, but is there a place for that too?

I ask because I did randori last week with a black belt that made me fight to the death for everything. I simply couldn't get past his stiff-arming me. So I did the only thing I could -- morote-gari from distance like in the video. I got him and maybe it wasn't pretty but it was the only thing I could do in the situation.

So I see pickups as tools in the toolbox, nothing more nothing less. I feel I need them for situations where nothing else will work. I also need to defend against them, which means we need to do them on each other.

Thoughts?

 

[vankuen]

I understand that competition is supposed to emulate combat in a way, and that to win in competition is to live on the battlefield--and that in and of itself could be justification for panic throws I suppose. So I do see your point. However, one should not just go for "anything" because while you still gain physical attribute skills, you don't gain any skills in the actual judo techniques that have been passed down.

 

[Formosa Neijia]

I understand that competition is supposed to emulate combat in a way, and that to win in competition is to live on the battlefield--and that in and of itself could be justification for panic throws I suppose. So I do see your point. However, one should not just go for "anything" because while you still gain physical attribute skills, you don't gain any skills in the actual judo techniques that have been passed down.

Agreed. I don't pull double leg every time I can because i want to learn how to make the other throws work. But I keep pickups in my toolbox for when they are needed. As you say, it's a battlefield out there sometimes.

 

[Abbax8]

Pickups are and have been part of judo, Ushiro-Goshi, Utsuri-Goshi, Marote-Gari, etc.

What is ugly is what is considered Ippon in todays competition. Driving someone across the mat who eventually falls on their butt and is pushed over on their back should be NOTHING and was NOTHING when I started judo. In fact we would have been told to knock it off and DO JUDO.

Peace

Dennis