Paterno stripped of 111 wins....right or wrong?

[punisher73]

NCAA announced yesterday that they were stripping 111 wins off of Paterno's record, dropping him from #1 winningest coach down to #5.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-111-wins-to-make-bowden-football-s-no-1.html


Do you think this is right to do, or just a misguided gesture to attempt to right something that can't be? Does removing them really change that he has had more coaching seasons than any other coach in history? does removing them really change that he has won more games than any other coach?

 

[elder999]

NCAA announced yesterday that they were stripping 111 wins off of Paterno's record, dropping him from #1 winningest coach down to #5.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-111-wins-to-make-bowden-football-s-no-1.html


Do you think this is right to do, or just a misguided gesture to attempt to right something that can't be? Does removing them really change that he has had more coaching seasons than any other coach in history? does removing them really change that he has won more games than any other coach?

1) The wins were stripped from Penn State' s record.

2) Paterno is dead.

3) When he was alive, he was part of the coverup and failure to stop Sandusky.

4) Oh, yeah: Paterno is dead.

Right or wrong doesn't really enter into it; they're punishing the college-not Paterno who is, after all, dead.

 

[Steve]

1) The wins were stripped from Penn State' s record.

2) Paterno is dead.

3) When he was alive, he was part of the coverup and failure to stop Sandusky.

4) Oh, yeah: Paterno is dead.

Right or wrong doesn't really enter into it; they're punishing the college-not Paterno who is, after all, dead.

If the administration on the team knowingly covered this up, my personal opinion is that they correctly stripped the college of any official record, and they should clean house completely. Every single one of them should be fired. After that, I would say the NAACP shouldn't penalize the kids. Hire new staff and let them play ball.

 

[oftheherd1]

1) The wins were stripped from Penn State' s record.

2) Paterno is dead.

3) When he was alive, he was part of the coverup and failure to stop Sandusky.

4) Oh, yeah: Paterno is dead.

Right or wrong doesn't really enter into it; they're punishing the college-not Paterno who is, after all, dead.

Well, apparently, since the college loses the wins, so does Paterno, and everyone who played. So there are pro-football players, who no longer have an official record. Of course, that doesn't mean they will be summarly fired by the pro teams, but it has to be a bummer.

I personally would feel better if the investigation were published, or given some credibility beyond Mr. Freeh said so. I don't mean anything against him, but what he is reported to have said, and on what established evidence, is different than what some, such as the media, or those accused, might want to verify or take issue with.

At the same time, how do you take care of this if not this way. It could not be ignored.

If the administration on the team knowingly covered this up, my personal opinion is that they correctly stripped the college of any official record, and they should clean house completely. Every single one of them should be fired. After that, I would say the NAACP shouldn't penalize the kids. Hire new staff and let them play ball.

Steve, I think you meant NCAA? ;-)

 

[Steve]

Steve, I think you meant NCAA? ;-)

LOL... yeah. My fingers were on auto-pilot.

 

[d1jinx]

Wrong.

Punish the school and administration.

Not the Players, Team, and Alumni who actually earned those wins.

Penalize and fine the hell out of them. Gut thier future football program. Do whatever,

but to forfiet WINS and titles of team and players of past is just WRONG.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Wrong.

Punish the school and administration.

Not the Players, Team, and Alumni who actually earned those wins.

Penalize and fine the hell out of them. Gut thier sports system. Do whatever,

but to forfiet WINS and titles of team and players of past is just WRONG.

The players and alumni were part of the cover-up.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Josh Oakley]

If the administration on the team knowingly covered this up, my personal opinion is that they correctly stripped the college of any official record, and they should clean house completely. Every single one of them should be fired. After that, I would say the NAACP shouldn't penalize the kids. Hire new staff and let them play ball.

The players themselves were part of the cover-up.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[ballen0351]

Wrong.

Punish the school and administration.

Not the Players, Team, and Alumni who actually earned those wins.

Penalize and fine the hell out of them. Gut thier future football program. Do whatever,

but to forfiet WINS and titles of team and players of past is just WRONG.

So now the team is the victim in your mind not the kids that were raped in the showers? That's silly. The only reason this was ever covered up was because of the wins had this been a science teacher it would have never been covered up. It was the football team that covered it up and the football team should pay the price.

 

[oftheherd1]

So now the team is the victim in your mind not the kids that were raped in the showers? That's silly. The only reason this was ever covered up was because of the wins had this been a science teacher it would have never been covered up. It was the football team that covered it up and the football team should pay the price.

I'm not doubting you, but could you provide some links to show that as true?

If the team players helped in the cover-up, I hope they get their day in court. Accessory after the fact deserves punishment as well. That is why what happened to Paterno is OK if he tried to cover things up as well. But if they knew nothing, and did not actively try to cover up what they knew was going on, why should they be punished? I just don't know if there was a good way to punish the school and not have (innocent) players suffer as well.

Moreover, any former students that can be shown (in a court of law, or maybe even in a thorough unassailable investigation) to have actively participated in cover-up(s), if they are playing for professional teams, should be gotten rid of. That is the one thing that bothers me about Paterno. I don't know that anything in the public domain has been proven against him. That said, he seemed to accept his firing without a lot of complaints.

 

[granfire]

Somebody told me Pen State has a weird way of dealing with problems:
it used to be a favorite past time during a certain week to entice female students to flash the guys roaming the campus.
Instead of punishing the roaming guys, females were punished is they even as much as turned their dorm lights on during that week....

The football program was used to cover up ONGOING abuse. We are not talking a couple of kids here. No telling how many boys were actually abused but have not come forward yet or if hey ever will.

It's no different from two people playing dirty and he whole program getting docked, as it has been in the past.

Does it suck for the players? I suppose. But in the end they will have their asterisk behind their name with the footnote of 'played for ill fated Pen State team'
They won the games on the field, that feeling can't be taken away from them. Just like the feeling of violation will always with the victims of Sandusky.

But that guy is a prime example on how evil strives when good men look the other way.

Football means nothing in the grand scheme, no matter how much money it can generate for a school...in the end, it is a game.

 

[Steve]

The players themselves were part of the cover-up.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

I mean the kids now. Kids next year. Don't sanction the program into the future. Fire everyone involved. Prosecute them if warranted.

 

[granfire]

I mean the kids now. Kids next year. Don't sanction the program into the future. Fire everyone involved. Prosecute them if warranted.

That is how you sanction the alumni and administrators: $$$

 

[ballen0351]

I'm not doubting you, but could you provide some links to show that as true?

If the team players helped in the cover-up, I hope they get their day in court. Accessory after the fact deserves punishment as well. That is why what happened to Paterno is OK if he tried to cover things up as well. But if they knew nothing, and did not actively try to cover up what they knew was going on, why should they be punished? I just don't know if there was a good way to punish the school and not have (innocent) players suffer as well.

Moreover, any former students that can be shown (in a court of law, or maybe even in a thorough unassailable investigation) to have actively participated in cover-up(s), if they are playing for professional teams, should be gotten rid of. That is the one thing that bothers me about Paterno. I don't know that anything in the public domain has been proven against him. That said, he seemed to accept his firing without a lot of complaints.

Read the report. After the assistant coach walked in and saw a child being raped in the shower he didn't stop it he said " I slammed a locker to alert them I was here". Then he told paterno not the police what he saw. Paterno decided he didn't want to bother the university president over the weekend so he waited until Monday to tell the university. Then they held a board meeting and decided the honorable thing to do was not report it to the police. That's a short version the report is very long and goes into great detail

 

[ballen0351]

I mean the kids now. Kids next year. Don't sanction the program into the future. Fire everyone involved. Prosecute them if warranted.

So when a team has a recruitment violation its OK to sanction the team but when the cover up child rape its not?

 

[bluewaveschool]

Let me put this theory to you -

One of your close friends of say, 20 plus years, is accused by some young kid of something absolutely sick. Something that in your mind, you could never see this friend doing. Do you go to the police? Remember, the assistant has said that he didn't tell JoePa what he saw in detail, not the same detail he told others. He went to the people that are supposed to look into and take care of these things. And when nothing happened, I would have assumed that it wasn't what it seemed, if I hadn't been given the graphic details.

And if anyone should be deserving of being turned into the villain for not calling the police, it's the damn assistant that WITNESSED a child being abused, and didn't do the right thing for years.

 

[granfire]

Let me put this theory to you -

One of your close friends of say, 20 plus years, is accused by some young kid of something absolutely sick. Something that in your mind, you could never see this friend doing. Do you go to the police? Remember, the assistant has said that he didn't tell JoePa what he saw in detail, not the same detail he told others. He went to the people that are supposed to look into and take care of these things. And when nothing happened, I would have assumed that it wasn't what it seemed, if I hadn't been given the graphic details.

And if anyone should be deserving of being turned into the villain for not calling the police, it's the damn assistant that WITNESSED a child being abused, and didn't do the right thing for years.

That's what predators count on: they build themselves up as person of respect and trust (check) pillar of the community (check) and good person (double check)
and NOBODY can imagine him doing the unimaginable.

 

[Steve]

So when a team has a recruitment violation its OK to sanction the team but when the cover up child rape its not?

Are we moving on now to talk about the NCAA process? Okay. Sure. I do have a problem with the sanctions idea. The people involved should be canned and suspensions for students who are involved. But punishing an entire student body, including students who benefit from the football or basketball teams only in terms of being able to participate in less lucrative sports or activities or research only because of the money generated by the high visibility football/basketball teams. When a football program is sanctioned long term, it punishes the entire university, including many kids who just want a quality education who may not even have been students at the time of the infraction. And often, the sanctions persist long after the people involved are gone. They are often fired or resign and move on, leaving a wake of destruction in their path.

 

[Steve]

Let me put this theory to you -

One of your close friends of say, 20 plus years, is accused by some young kid of something absolutely sick. Something that in your mind, you could never see this friend doing. Do you go to the police? Remember, the assistant has said that he didn't tell JoePa what he saw in detail, not the same detail he told others. He went to the people that are supposed to look into and take care of these things. And when nothing happened, I would have assumed that it wasn't what it seemed, if I hadn't been given the graphic details.

And if anyone should be deserving of being turned into the villain for not calling the police, it's the damn assistant that WITNESSED a child being abused, and didn't do the right thing for years.

While this may not meet the legal definition of the term, there is a moral duty to act on the part of everyone involved. If someone accuses your close friend of something absolutely sick, you have a duty to investigate the situation completely and report it to the authorities if it is an accusation that crosses the line from administrative to criminal. Some situations are gray and complex. This isn't one of them. JoePa had a clear obligation to act and he did not.

 

[WC_lun]

I don't like sanctions that effect students that had nothing to do with the abuse or its cover up. Those students are only guilty of having the bad luck to pick Penn state as thier college. Punish the guilty for sure. Anyone who had anything to do with covering up the abuse should lose thier job, thier pension, and face criminal charges. So I don't like the idea of removing those wins, but I can definitley support removing JoePa's statue from the campus.