Parental Knowledge of TKD

[Gorilla]

Probably not the best title!

Can a parent non-martial artist have valid opinions about the art/sport.

Some may spend as much as 15-20 hours a week in the Dojang albeit just observing. They may also attend 15-20 tournaments a year. They may have done this for 5 to 15 years. Could they have built up a knowledge base which other Martial Artists might respect.

I am looking forward to you opinions. Not trying to stir the pot I think it could be an interesting topic for discussion and can't recall that it has been truly discussed before.

 

[terryl965]

I have seen some very knowledgable parents that have taken the time to learn everything they can to help there kids. I believe they have enough info to be dangerous when it comes from training the actual techs. I know you Gorilla have enough knowledge to be able to help your kids, but you are very involved in there routines daily.

I see too many parents that know nothing except what they see on TV and believe they have all the answers to everything.

I guess it depends on what type of parent you are.

 

[ETinCYQX]

I like parents who take interest in their kids activities. However I don't appreciate being corrected as a teacher by a parent who doesn't train. Sometimes they fail to understand that different teachers do things in slightly different ways, and more importantly that standards change. I pride myself on being up to speed on new changes in the Kukkiwon and WTF.

We actually had a parent argue up and down that we were teaching the form wrong because "I don't remember them looking like that." Turns out the last time the kid trained was before our school was WTF certified. We still did Palgwe forms.

 

[dancingalone]

One can learn a LOT by actively watching and listening. Then again, one can also learn a lot by just reading too, instead of necessarily DOING. I think most of us would say that the 'doing' part is very important, perhaps even the most important depending on the activity we are talking about. We wouldn't want to go to a surgeon who has only learned by reading and watching others, rather than undergoing an practical apprenticeship of their own.

It's just one of those things. Attentive and involved parents deserve a lot of respect. I would not discount their opinion out of hand. That said, unless they also train, they're missing a lot of perspective too and that should be taken into account by both sides when the parents have a difference in opinion with the instructor.

 

[ETinCYQX]

It's just one of those things. Attentive and involved parents deserve a lot of respect. I would not discount their opinion out of hand. That said, unless they also train, they're missing a lot of perspective too and that should be taken into account by both sides when the parents have a difference in opinion with the instructor.

That's certainly 100% true but you and I both know how irritating it can be to be corrected during class by a non-martial artist. I welcome opinions but IMO it's unacceptable to interrupt a class and basically outright challenge an instructor. Yes, it has happened to me as an assistant instructor. Even if you outrank me, I am the instructor and I expect everyone to respect that the same way I would were you teaching.

Disclaimer: "you" is anyone in general. Not directed to anyone, it's just easier to make a point that way.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I think they can to a certain degree. My wife spent 2 years sitting and watching me and my daughter train and attending gradings, club days etc and I would often see my daughter doing her form and my wife would tell her to widen her stance, keep her eyes up and straight ahead, correct her foot positioning etc and the advice she was giving was correct because she had seen the instructor picking her up on those same things. If a parent takes an active interest in what their kid is learning then it is quite possible for them to pick up a few things along the way.

 

[puunui]

Can a parent non-martial artist have valid opinions about the art/sport.

Yes. I don't play basketball but I like to watch and I also like to feel that I have valid opinions about basketball. But that doesn't mean that my "knowledge" of basketball comes close to someone who actually plays or coaches.

Some may spend as much as 15-20 hours a week in the Dojang albeit just observing. They may also attend 15-20 tournaments a year. They may have done this for 5 to 15 years. Could they have built up a knowledge base which other Martial Artists might respect.

A knowledge base which other Martial Artists might respect. That is a loaded phrase. As long as the parent doesn't try to meddle with the instructor's responsibilities and/or tell the instructor what to do.

 

[dancingalone]

That's certainly 100% true but you and I both know how irritating it can be to be corrected during class by a non-martial artist. I welcome opinions but IMO it's unacceptable to interrupt a class and basically outright challenge an instructor. Yes, it has happened to me as an assistant instructor. Even if you outrank me, I am the instructor and I expect everyone to respect that the same way I would were you teaching.

Disclaimer: "you" is anyone in general. Not directed to anyone, it's just easier to make a point that way.

Haven't had that happen to me yet, but I definitely wouldn't be pleased if it did. The parent would be shown the door quickly by me.

As long as the parent doesn't try to meddle with the instructor's responsibilities and/or tell the instructor what to do.

Agreed. I would welcome a parent's input during a private discussion but not while class is being conducted.

 

[DMcHenry]

It might depend if they've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.... ;-)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[ATC]

Short answer, yes.

You can see when someone is doing something wrong and let them know. Yes a parent can even learn to see timing and distance. It is no different than being a coach of a boxer or fighter. There are some that don't do or have not done but can teach or explain when they see it. It may take a bit longer that someone that does it but it can be done.

They could even teach so called perfect technique. The only difference is that they cannot show or demonstrate it correctly. They would have to rely on having said student repeat until one of the repeats looks correct and then say "THAT WAS IT; now do just like that again". Again this may take them longer to teach something that a person that does it also would take to teach someone but it still could be done.

There are many techniques that I cannot do perfectly or make look pretty but I can teach anyone capable of doing to do it. I have never done a 540 or 720 but have taught quite a few how to do it.

 

[andyjeffries]

I welcome opinions but IMO it's unacceptable to interrupt a class and basically outright challenge an instructor. Yes, it has happened to me as an assistant instructor. Even if you outrank me, I am the instructor and I expect everyone to respect that the same way I would were you teaching.

Given that you mention outranking I assume you're referring in a more general sense to being corrected while instructing. We had a conversation about this recently that you might find interesting:

Stopping a junior immediately or wait till they've finished?

 

[Indie12]

Probably not the best title!

Can a parent non-martial artist have valid opinions about the art/sport.

Some may spend as much as 15-20 hours a week in the Dojang albeit just observing. They may also attend 15-20 tournaments a year. They may have done this for 5 to 15 years. Could they have built up a knowledge base which other Martial Artists might respect.

I am looking forward to you opinions. Not trying to stir the pot I think it could be an interesting topic for discussion and can't recall that it has been truly discussed before.

In my opinion, YES, non-Martial artist Parents can have a very intelligent and valid opinion on the Art/Sport. Especially nowdays with the internet, books, etc.... I had an interesting debate with a parent when I was a Tae Kwon Do instructor (I'm a former TKD Instructor-Black Belt) and the parent was talking about the tenets of TKD. This particular parent had no prior experience in Martial Arts/TKD other then her son was taking classes from me. I have to admit, she put me through quite a challenge. I found myself having to go and look things up.

Observation is the best way of learning, parents who attend trainings and tournaments often learn things by simply observing...

 

[Indie12]

That's certainly 100% true but you and I both know how irritating it can be to be corrected during class by a non-martial artist. I welcome opinions but IMO it's unacceptable to interrupt a class and basically outright challenge an instructor. Yes, it has happened to me as an assistant instructor. Even if you outrank me, I am the instructor and I expect everyone to respect that the same way I would were you teaching.

Disclaimer: "you" is anyone in general. Not directed to anyone, it's just easier to make a point that way.

I'd agree to a point. In my Institute, it is a closed school, and we don't allow anyone under the age of 18 to attend, unless we give them special permission to do so.

I agree, to interrupt a class is unacceptable, and anyone who challenges an Instructor is completely out of line.

However,

1) You say 'outrank' which makes me wonder (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is the Instructor wasn't challanging you in front of the class, and that upset you? ANY Instructor, including assistants, should never challenge anyone in front of the class, unless it's for training purposes.

2) If were talking about Tae Kwon Do, traditionally those are open classes and it is often true that unexpected interruptions do occur during class either ITF or WTF.

3) A Non-Martial Artist (especially parents) may challenge you, and yes it is irritating, but you have to remember, YOU are the PROFESSIONAL, and therefore your actions will dictate the outcome of the challenge.

Yes, it is irritating, but if it's a parent who has a child in the class, they have every right to question you!!

Traditionally, yes challanging an Instructor is frowned down upon. But a parent does have the right to question an Instructor, especially (like it or not) if that parent has a child in your class!!

There is a difference between challanging and Questioning!!

 

[terryl965]

I'd agree to a point. In my Institute, it is a closed school, and we don't allow anyone under the age of 18 to attend, unless we give them special permission to do so.

I agree, to interrupt a class is unacceptable, and anyone who challenges an Instructor is completely out of line.

However,

1) You say 'outrank' which makes me wonder (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is the Instructor wasn't challanging you in front of the class, and that upset you? ANY Instructor, including assistants, should never challenge anyone in front of the class, unless it's for training purposes.

2) If were talking about Tae Kwon Do, traditionally those are open classes and it is often true that unexpected interruptions do occur during class either ITF or WTF.

3) A Non-Martial Artist (especially parents) may challenge you, and yes it is irritating, but you have to remember, YOU are the PROFESSIONAL, and therefore your actions will dictate the outcome of the challenge.

Yes, it is irritating, but if it's a parent who has a child in the class, they have every right to question you!!

Traditionally, yes challanging an Instructor is frowned down upon. But a parent does have the right to question an Instructor, especially (like it or not) if that parent has a child in your class!!

There is a difference between challanging and Questioning!!

You are confusing in the post before this yousay the parent of a child, but yet in this post you do not allow anyone below 18 to take classes, except you give them permission which one do you have childern in class or no.

 

[hal-apino]

That's certainly 100% true but you and I both know how irritating it can be to be corrected during class by a non-martial artist. I welcome opinions but IMO it's unacceptable to interrupt a class and basically outright challenge an instructor. Yes, it has happened to me as an assistant instructor. Even if you outrank me, I am the instructor and I expect everyone to respect that the same way I would were you teaching.

Disclaimer: "you" is anyone in general. Not directed to anyone, it's just easier to make a point that way.

I am not a barber, but when I sit and watch my kid get his hair cut and I notice it's not right I speak up! I have never had a barber tell me that it is irritating or that I am a Non-hair expert or challenging him. I also am not going to wait till after that hair cut to make my comments as it is to late at that point. I have even been so bold to do the same with my kids doctor even though I have never attended medical school! Once in a while I will challenge a teacher and to this day I have never been told that I am out ranked!

I have never worked at McDonalds, but I have been going long enough to understand when they have screwed up my order!

As a parent, and this is just my opinion your rank does not over rank me as the paying customer! Yes you are the instructor and if my child is attending your school, then I am paying for your service. " I am the instructor" yeah......and???? I am the checkbook!

There has to be a balance of respect with both the parent and Instructor!

As far as a parent having knowledge, I believe they do if they are paying attention and and involved. I knew every form ( poomse) in my head and how it should look, could I perform them NO, but that is not to say that I did not know.


I personally think I am smarter than DAVIE, but that does not make me a lawyer! -)

 

[dancingalone]

They could even teach so called perfect technique. The only difference is that they cannot show or demonstrate it correctly. They would have to rely on having said student repeat until one of the repeats looks correct and then say "THAT WAS IT; now do just like that again". Again this may take them longer to teach something that a person that does it also would take to teach someone but it still could be done.

There are many techniques that I cannot do perfectly or make look pretty but I can teach anyone capable of doing to do it. I have never done a 540 or 720 but have taught quite a few how to do it.

Depends on what we are practicing. I could see a non-training parent being able to describe what a 'good' kick should look like. They might be able to parrot back some information they heard about hip rotation and feet turning over. This can be helpful.

I do believe however there are physical techniques that one simply cannot teach unless one has practiced them personally. Things like throwing or locking or grappling come to mind where small motion is frequently the key to making them work. An onlooker simply won't catch it and even if they do, they won't be able to describe it properly later.

 

[Gorilla]

I am not a barber, but when I sit and watch my kid get his hair cut and I notice it's not right I speak up! I have never had a barber tell me that it is irritating or that I am a Non-hair expert or challenging him. I also am not going to wait till after that hair cut to make my comments as it is to late at that point. I have even been so bold to do the same with my kids doctor even though I have never attended medical school! Once in a while I will challenge a teacher and to this day I have never been told that I am out ranked!

I have never worked at McDonalds, but I have been going long enough to understand when they have screwed up my order!

As a parent, and this is just my opinion your rank does not over rank me as the paying customer! Yes you are the instructor and if my child is attending your school, then I am paying for your service. " I am the instructor" yeah......and???? I am the checkbook!

There has to be a balance of respect with both the parent and Instructor!






As far as a parent having knowledge, I believe they do if they are paying attention and and involved. I knew every form ( poomse) in my head and how it should look, could I perform them NO, but that is not to say that I did not know.


I personally think I am smarter than DAVIE, but that does not make me a lawyer! -)

Thanks for your input on a different note and not to derail the thread thanks for shedding a light on things in our sport. Don't get discouraged allot of people appreciate what you are doing.

 

[Archtkd]

Can a parent non-martial artist have valid opinions about the art/sport.

Some may spend as much as 15-20 hours a week in the Dojang albeit just observing. They may also attend 15-20 tournaments a year. They may have done this for 5 to 15 years. Could they have built up a knowledge base which other Martial Artists might respect.

Definitely yes. I have great respect for parents who pay close attention to what's going on with their children at the dojang. Those parents often know some important traits and things about their children that an instructor will never know. That knowledge, when passed on to the teacher in a good way, can really help in the further development and training of a good student.

 

[Gorilla]

Thanks to everyone who has posted you have made this a good thread.

As a parent my perspective is this.

I don't coach my kids! I don't train my kids! I provide the financial support and parental guidance.

I am very picky with who I allow to train my kids. The understanding that I have with those involved with my kids is this. I stay out of the training I don't critique. I may ask questions from time to time but I leave the training to the experts. I have started to pull back on the watching of the training. I am still there and monitor whats going on but try to actually watch as little as possible. They have very good coaches and trainers and i leave the training up to them.

I manage my kids career with the kids input. They have taken a more active roll in this over the last 9 months and I welcome this.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Probably not the best title!

Can a parent non-martial artist have valid opinions about the art/sport.

Some may spend as much as 15-20 hours a week in the Dojang albeit just observing. They may also attend 15-20 tournaments a year. They may have done this for 5 to 15 years. Could they have built up a knowledge base which other Martial Artists might respect.

I am looking forward to you opinions. Not trying to stir the pot I think it could be an interesting topic for discussion and can't recall that it has been truly discussed before.

Based on what I see at my daughters TKD class I can say for the majority I have to say no.

The Reason is they are watching and observing in a Vacuum. They see what goes on at one school and do not have anything to compare it to.