Only 1/5 of the Wing Chun System is currently being taught in the US??

[StormShadow]

Found this opinion piece.... Wanted to gauge how you guys feel about this and its validity...

http://wingchunfightclub.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=57

 

[geezer]

Typical WC BS ...basically propaganda promoting one instructor though this hearsay myth of the "5 inheritors" of the Ip Man lineage. There are a number of important people left out who trained with Ip man both in Hong Kong and previously in Fo'shan on the mainland. There are other lineages too. And there are crappy instructors from good lineages, and some good instructors from not-so-good lineages.

The only part of this piece that has validity is the idea that WC can benefit from more people getting out there and testing their art, learning from their mistakes and adapting, evolving and improving. Ironically, this point of view is the exact opposite of the over-emphasis on lineage that the whole "5 inheritors" story promotes.

 

[Eric_H]

Found this opinion piece.... Wanted to gauge how you guys feel about this and its validity...

http://wingchunfightclub.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=57

It's entirely possible, but mostly unproven. The only key point is that it does fit in with how Kung Fu masters from those days tended to operate.

 

[Vajramusti]

Found this opinion piece.... Wanted to gauge how you guys feel about this and its validity...

http://wingchunfightclub.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=57

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With an opinion and $2.50 you can buya cup of coffee in Arizona in many places.

 

[yak sao]

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With an opinion and $2.50 you can buya cup of coffee in Arizona in many places.

A bit pricey...could probably get that much cheaper here in KY. But what do I know, I drink tea.

BTW, this empty shell stuff that I've been fortunate enough to learn sure does pack a wallop!

 

[Danny T]

That Sifu Yip taught most everyone differently I would opine is correct. That many wing chun practitioners are empty shells due to not really fighting or pressure testing their abilities is true and can also be said of most all the other martial systems. That the system is dead because of Yip Man not passing on the complete system I question because of the many other non Yip Man lineages who instruct the same material. Are there personal variations? Yes. There are a lot more people worldwide who have some training in WC and a large amount of them only have a little training; Just as there is in all the other arts. If you have not trained diligently and seriously pressure tested your abilities learning to adapt in many different environments your real abilities will be but empty shells also.

 

[StormShadow]

That Sifu Yip taught most everyone differently I would opine is correct. That many wing chun practitioners are empty shells due to not really fighting or pressure testing their abilities is true and can also be said of most all the other martial systems. That the system is dead because of Yip Man not passing on the complete system I question because of the many other non Yip Man lineages who instruct the same material. Are there personal variations? Yes. There are a lot more people worldwide who have some training in WC and a large amount of them only have a little training; Just as there is in all the other arts. If you have not trained diligently and seriously pressure tested your abilities learning to adapt in many different environments your real abilities will be but empty shells also.

Makes alot of sense. I train alot with the seniors, staying late after class, going over application, form ect. But we train very very physically, building up the body as well as the mind. Then we test our knowledge against other martial arts/fighting styles. One of my seniors bong sau alone hurt so much the first time I threw a boxer's straight right at him that my right forearm swelled up and he was fine. To be proficient in wing chun I now see your training must become very very physical and it should be difficult. After all, real life is extremely physical, unpredictable and difficult so we should mirror as much as possible. But in every art you will have those who are great at technique or teaching but aren't fighters and vice versa. This is one reason why it doesn't depend on the style, lineage, art ect but the fighter itself.

 

[StormShadow]

I also heard that GM Yip Gai Man taught his students differently. Though any of us can only go off the words of others whom actually trained with him. None of us really have first hand knowledge. It is possible that yip man knew alot more than what he gave his students. If so, that's kind of sad in a way that the info would die with him not unless there is some secret society in china that actually has all the info. Now I have to wonder if almost every art that wasn't meant to be taught to outsiders (not of the art's origin) is missing forms, techniques ect.

 

[geezer]

...It is possible that yip man knew alot more than what he gave his students. If so, that's kind of sad in a way that the info would die with him... Now I have to wonder if almost every art that wasn't meant to be taught to outsiders (not of the art's origin) is missing forms, techniques ect.

Robert W. Smith and others have noted that many old styles of kung-fu died out because of excessive secrecy combined with too few "worthy" sudents to carry on the tradition. I don't believe this is the case with Wing Chun.

For one thing, if a gifted and hardworking student really understands the conceptual basis and physical foundations of WC, they eventually reach a point where they can figure out a "true" WC response to various kinds of situations. WC isn't entirely an art that is handed-down. It is equally an art that is re-discovered and further developed by each generation.

If WC does deteriorate, it won't be because some "secrets" have been witheld. It will be due to a failure of the next generation to study and train hard enough to internalize what they've been taught and to use their intellect as well as their bodies to carry this inheritance forward.

 

[yak sao]

For one thing, if a gifted and hardworking student really understands the conceptual basis and physical foundations of WC, they eventually reach a point where they can figure out a "true" WC response to various kinds of situations. WC isn't entirely an art that is handed-down. It is equally an art that is re-discovered and further developed by each generation.

This is gold.

 

[jeff_hasbrouck]

Okie dokie; Well first off this guy actually has a few valid points...

The reason we get our *** kicked so bad and only can "beat up" people in our own system is because we don't train hard enough; and In my educated opinion, because most WT/WC instructors are so full of themselves thinking that wing tsun is unbeatable... It has nothing to do with a "Full/Complete System"... Matter of fact; Yip Man did teach differences in his system. When He was teaching in Fo'Shan he was teaching more of the Chan Wah Shun stuff, with some Leung Bik mixed in; But when he moved to Hong Kong; He was teaching his system that HE MADE UP. Just like every other human being on the planet; He liked certain techniques and he taught worked for him. Ya he taught the other stuff, but don't anyone sit there and tell me he didn't have favorite techniques. It is well known that he had no interest in teaching.

When WT was developed (as we suppose) it was not built to be an "Unbeatable System", it was meant as way of people being able to defend themselves effectively in a short amount of time. So all you WT/WC people saying that WT/WC is unbeatable/only effective art is rediculous. But thats not to say WT doesn't have some really good concepts and theories. But we have to be able to adapt. The "Original System" is not going to be effective against EVERY fighter. You need to update applications or even create new techniques/modify old ones to do the job at hand.

The problem with creating new techniques is often people don't know how to do it. First off you need to UNDERSTAND the concepts and theories. How, when, why the technique is used; and how we adapt it to the new cutting edge stuff against new fighters/systems.

Our only saving grace is chi-sau/lat-sau. The more we train our reflexes in chi-sau and lat-sau; undeniably the better martial artists and fighters we will be.

As for this guy saying that only a few people learned the "one true system" well who the fart cares? I've seen what william cheung calls "traditional WC", and his "Dim-Mak" techniques. Well my good sirs, i've only been doing WT for 10 years, but I also incorporate my practical fighting knowledge into my system. My boxing, karate, wrestling/grappling knowledge and techniques help me create what I call meat an potatoe WT.

Another thing I do is stick to the principals. For instance bong-sau is not supposed to be really high; Nor is it supposed very close to the body. All basic WT techniques go towards the opponents center. Pak-da's don't go to the side, you put pressure forward.

Everyone has a different way of doing things, but what really matters is the fighting application.