One bit of advice I always disliked when hearing from self-defense instructors is to run away at the first sign of trouble.

Kung Fu Wang

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Next day I was on the Greyhound bus to Houston.

Family there?
I was in the University of Kansas at Lawrence. I got 3 transfer admissions from

1. University of Texas at Austin.
2. University of Houston.
3. Texas A & M University.

I wanted to visit 1 and 2 before I made a decision. At that time, all Texas university tuition for foreign students was just $200 per semester (I had to pay $650 per semester in University of Kansas at Lawrence).
 

gyoja

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I was in the University of Kansas at Lawrence. I got 3 transfer admissions from

1. University of Texas at Austin.
2. University of Houston.
3. Texas A & M University.

I wanted to visit 1 and 2 before I made a decision. At that time, all Texas university tuition for foreign students was just $200 per semester (I had to pay $650 per semester in University of Kansas at Lawrence).
What did you decide on?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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What did you decide on?
I like the UT Austin campus much better. I spent the rest of my life in that city.

UT_Austin_1.jpg
 

gyoja

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I like the UT Austin campus much better. I spent the rest of my life in that city.

View attachment 30944
Cool. My mother-in-law went there. In high school, I did a summer session at Texas A&M in Galveston. I received my Masters at the University of St. Thomas in Houston.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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And that's why I hate when people say to just run away cause it could mean so many things. And sometimes running just isn't an option, what are you gonna do beg for your life?

This is something I will stand firm on. Don't waste time learning how to fight if you're not prepared and willing to do so.
Again, most instructors are not saying to just run away as if thats the simple guaranteed solution. Either you're misunderstanding them, or watching youtube videos where they purposefully dumb down what they're saying to get as many people as possible to get the gist of their advice.
 
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Mallic

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Again, most instructors are not saying to just run away as if thats the simple guaranteed solution. Either you're misunderstanding them, or watching youtube videos where they purposefully dumb down what they're saying to get as many people as possible to get the gist of their advice.
Isn't that kinda lazy though?
 

Gerry Seymour

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If you run the 1st time, you will run the 2nd time, and you will run for the rest of your life.

I always told my son to stand on his ground and fight back. He had his first fight when he was in junior high. I was so happy that day. I told him that I had my first fight when I was in my 1st grade.

When my MA teacher said, "I'll beat you up if you get into a fight without good reason. I 'll also beat you up if you run away from a fight when you have a good reason to fight."

I like to pass down what he had said to the future generation.
I agree with what I think you're saying. I'm just posting what I think is clarification. (Forgive any nonsense in this - I'm bone weary at the moment.)

If the fight starts, I learned early on to deal with it. If trouble looked like it was going to start, I'd exit the situation. Neither of those ever came back to bite me, though both could have. I was the guy in school who broke up the fights when a bigger guy (or guys) decided to attack a smaller guy (never "guys"). That also never came back to bite me, though it also could have.

Some folks live in situations where their choices can't be what mine were. I think this is something that's very situational, and there's usually no good way to know if the alternative (the choice not taken) would have been better.
 

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Here's my little hot take on this:

Frankly, when someone here says "run away" as a first resort - as either a suggestion or something that they themselves would do - remember that we're on a martial arts forum. I think some people are going to say what they think they're supposed to say, at the expense of their own honesty. Nobody here wants to be "that guy" who says that he'll knock the block off of any man who crosses him. Things won't end well for you if you say that on a martial arts forum. Even on the internet in general, nobody wants to be the "internet tough guy," some will avoid it to the point of overcompensating by saying they'd run away.

However, my experience out in the world is a lot different from what I've seen people claim on line. I've seen plenty of grown men fighting, and can probably count on one hand the number of times I've ever seen a man run away from another. In fact, I can only recall one off the dome - because it actually happened on my front yard when I was 15. A male friend of my mother's was confronted by another man, and ran off because he was scared. Everyone there - included me - busted out laughing at him. I lived in that neighborhood for three more years, and he wasn't able to live that down up to the point I left.

I've seen far less instances of men running away than instances of men who knew they were outmatched simply taking the beating, whether they fought back or not (most did).

Truth is that showing fear empowers the other person. Match their aggression, and it throws their confidence off. That's the more desirable outcome, in my opinion.

In the case of a woman dealing with a male attacker, it's not the same. First, women aren't expected to be able to fight men. Generally speaking, when a woman matches a man's aggession, she's hoping that men standing by are going to help her. That's not her being brave. That's her believing she's going to get the favorable outcome. And the male aggressor knows all of this. Also, there are zero social consquences for a woman who runs away from a man.
Varg Freeborn told a story about when he was minding his own business on a bench in Florida. A guy came towards him, and he was giving off the nonverbal tells of predator behavior, plus jail time. Varg shifted at an angle, slyly positioning his hand by his gun. He glanced at the guy, acknowledging him. He started talking to Varg, making it apparent that he was both desperate and willing to engage in violence. Varg calmly, politely, and very subtlety, without any verbal aggression, informed him he would kill him if he tried to attack.
He walked away from Varg, no insult to anyones status or honor.
 
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Mallic

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Varg Freeborn told a story about when he was minding his own business on a bench in Florida. A guy came towards him, and he was giving off the nonverbal tells of predator behavior, plus jail time. Varg shifted at an angle, slyly positioning his hand by his gun. He glanced at the guy, acknowledging him. He started talking to Varg, making it apparent that he was both desperate and willing to engage in violence. Varg calmly, politely, and very subtlety, without any verbal aggression, informed him he would kill him if he tried to attack.
He walked away from Varg, no insult to anyones status or honor.
Hmm. Not bad.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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A: I want to fight you.
B: I'll throw only 1 punch toward your face. If you can block it, you win, otherwise, you lose (This was what the praying mantis master Brendan Lai told the challenger).

When someone wants to fight you, you can always set up a role. If he agrees, you can fight him. If he doesn't agree, you don't have to fight him.
 
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Bill Mattocks

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And this isn't because it's a bad suggestion or because you should fight to prove something. Let's get this out of the way, if you can avoid confrontation do so, if you can deescalate the situation do so. My beef is if your first instinct is to run at the first sign of trouble, then why are you bothering to learn martial arts in the first place? Also let's think about this for a second, you are confronted by someone who clearly means you harm, has no intention of backing down or walking away, and you decide that the best course of action is to show them your back?

Because unless you are absolutely confident in your ability to outrun your attacker, all that's going to happen is he's going to get on top of you and have their way with you. Assuming they don't just ambush you, my suggestion is to intimidate them to the point where they are convinced trying to confront you aren't worth the hassle or find something to put in between you and them before making your escape, be it a trashcan between you and them or just knocking them down to buy a few precious seconds.

And while I know I'm probably going to get flack for this for not supporting the idea of just immediately running away, I feel confident saying this because this is the exact same advice that they give you if you're ever confronted by a mountain lion. "NEVER turn your back on a puma" Again I'm not saying you shouldn't try to get away, it isn't a fight to the death or anything, if you can knock them out or throw them off balance long enough to get away, that's a victory. But telling someone to just immediately start running at the first sign of danger just seems like a really easy way to get someone hurt or worse.

And again, if you're THAT confident in your ability to run away from an attacker, why not just take up track and field?
I'm past being able to run at all. Nevertheless, my advice is to leave such encounters if at all possible.

Martial arts training is for times when it isn't possible. And you can still get very dead very fast.

In my experience, fighting is chaotic. Any outcome is possible, including me becoming injured or dead. I'll do a lot to forestall that possibility. I have no need to prove my manhood, my machismo doesn't need to be protected, and I can easily replace my watch, car, and wallet. None of it is worth my life.

I will fight if I have no other options, and that's one of the reasons I train.

I will continue to advise that the best thing to be when a fight begins is elsewhere.
 

gyoja

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A: I want to fight you.
B: I'll throw only 1 punch toward your face. If you can block it, you win, otherwise, you lose (This was what the praying mantis master Brendan Lai told the challenger).

When someone wants to fight you, you can always set up a role. If he agrees, you can fight him. If he doesn't agree, you don't have to fight him.
How did that particular fight turn out?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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How did that particular fight turn out?
What Brendan Lai told me was the following:

A guy walked into his school and challenged him a fight. Brendan said, "I'll throw just 1 punch. If you can block it, you win. Otherwise, you lose". When Brendan said that, Brendan moves his fist toward that guy's belly. When Brendan punches, Brendan punched that guy's face.

Brendan Lai had excellent speed.

 
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Mallic

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I'm past being able to run at all. Nevertheless, my advice is to leave such encounters if at all possible.

Martial arts training is for times when it isn't possible. And you can still get very dead very fast.

In my experience, fighting is chaotic. Any outcome is possible, including me becoming injured or dead. I'll do a lot to forestall that possibility. I have no need to prove my manhood, my machismo doesn't need to be protected, and I can easily replace my watch, car, and wallet. None of it is worth my life.

I will fight if I have no other options, and that's one of the reasons I train.

I will continue to advise that the best thing to be when a fight begins is elsewhere.
I can believe that, if fighting games are anything remotely close to how a real fight can go, I don't have the battle IQ to just rush someone down and overwhelm them, which is why I gravitate towards zoners(Yes I know it's not like a real fight, don't lambast me for making that comparison)
 

gyoja

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I can believe that, if fighting games are anything remotely close to how a real fight can go, I don't have the battle IQ to just rush someone down and overwhelm them, which is why I gravitate towards zoners(Yes I know it's not like a real fight, don't lambast me for making that comparison)
I assure you, its nothing like a video game.
 
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