Old style Muay Thai?
- Thread starter CKM
- Start date
Tommy-sdf
White Belt
i think any muay boran you find now will be B.S, re-named standard muay thai called muay boran to cash in on the ong bak craze or reconstructed old master tricks from muay thai and things re-discovered from old texts therefore it is highly speculative weather it would indeed b real muay boran. I have seen a few websites claiming to teach muay boran but it has just seemed slightly altered muay thai without the great resistance training muay thai offers.
if i were you id stick with whats available now,sport muay thai, its still great for self defence and really you could see it as the latest evolution of muay boran. as a reference you could look for the thai master tricks, usually complimentary techniques of muay thai generally flying elbows/knees, a few kicking variations and the like.
dr. kratius' book on muay thai is good and contains an old thaiboxing text from the reighn of king ramma iii it may have what your after.
another idea perhaps is take up krabi krabong they do teach some unarmed stuff which may suit your needs. but treat anywhere caliming to teach muay boran with caution.
good luck!
if i were you id stick with whats available now,sport muay thai, its still great for self defence and really you could see it as the latest evolution of muay boran. as a reference you could look for the thai master tricks, usually complimentary techniques of muay thai generally flying elbows/knees, a few kicking variations and the like.
dr. kratius' book on muay thai is good and contains an old thaiboxing text from the reighn of king ramma iii it may have what your after.
another idea perhaps is take up krabi krabong they do teach some unarmed stuff which may suit your needs. but treat anywhere caliming to teach muay boran with caution.
good luck!
Look at the USMTA website. There was a teacher in New York that teaches muay boran and he is recognized by the World Muay Thai Council. Most other schools are in Europe. Kru Marco DeCesaris wrote a book on muay boran and if i read it right muay boran was the name given to the older styles (muay korat, muay ta sao, muay chaiya, muay lopburi) around 1996 to try to keep them around because all the old masters were dying and know one was continuing the old styles. Panya Kraitus who wrote Muay Thai: The Textbook of Pahiyuth, is a student of a late muay chaiya master and his book is considered to be the bible of muay thai. Check it out if you don't have any luck with muay boran.
blackdiamondcobra
Purple Belt
You can email at blackdiamondcobra@yahoo.com because sometimes there are people passing through from Thailand that come to the west coast. I am on the east coast.
Muay Boran is something very specific it is more a composite physical education version of the old systems and not the authentic old style systems.
I have an upcoming book on the topic and it has translations of the authentic grandmasters systems and teaching from my years training in the systems in thailand.
likewise you can check col amnats dvds for an overview.
Muay Boran is something very specific it is more a composite physical education version of the old systems and not the authentic old style systems.
I have an upcoming book on the topic and it has translations of the authentic grandmasters systems and teaching from my years training in the systems in thailand.
likewise you can check col amnats dvds for an overview.
Hey blackdiamondcobra, will you PM me when your book is complete and ready for sale? It seems everyone is on a muay boran kick since the release of Ong Bak. People need to realize that muay boran is a combination of the older styles and not just one style. Muay boran saying "Punch like Korat, think like Lopburi and stand like Chaiya".
tellner
Senior Master
Kru Steve Wilson - http://www.chalambok.us - does intensive 1-on-1 and seminars in Krabi Krabong, Muay Kaechuk (sp?) and Muay Thai Boran. He's been with Ajarn Chai since forever and was one of the first Westerners to go all the way through Buddai Swan back when it was Buddai Swan. He has a commission in the Thai military to teach the traditional arts to Army officers and is an all-around world-class instructor.
+1
I spent a lot of time training with Ajarn Wilson and he certainly knows KK, and the "old" styles. Train with him if you can!
William
PS: Hey "T", how you doing?
Thunder Foot
Brown Belt
hmmm.... I still question this "Muay Boran" composition as you guys call it. I belive it is easily being confused with this newly developed "Muay Thai Boran" amalgamation.
Thunder Foot
Brown Belt
That book is ok. I own it as well, but I'm still a little skeptical as it doesn't give definitive references for their accumulative knowledge of Muay Boran. It only talks about people who don't have any history in Muay Boran, and are part of their oraganization.
I'd much rather look to a more credible source for Muay Boran, like The Muay Chaiya Foundation as they are respected by the World Muay Thai Council, and provide credible sources that can be referenced.
http://www.muaychaiya.com/index_en.html
I'd much rather look to a more credible source for Muay Boran, like The Muay Chaiya Foundation as they are respected by the World Muay Thai Council, and provide credible sources that can be referenced.
http://www.muaychaiya.com/index_en.html
Thunder Foot
Brown Belt
Tellner,
I tried to search for those people you mentioned, and the website is unavailable. Do you have another link?
Also I'm familiar with Ajarn Chai, and I know he doesn't teach Muay Boran. So I'm assuming those you mentioned learned from the Buddhai Swan? I could be wrong, but I thought they primarily taught Krabi Krabong? :asian:
I tried to search for those people you mentioned, and the website is unavailable. Do you have another link?
Also I'm familiar with Ajarn Chai, and I know he doesn't teach Muay Boran. So I'm assuming those you mentioned learned from the Buddhai Swan? I could be wrong, but I thought they primarily taught Krabi Krabong? :asian:
tellner
Senior Master
All of them trained at Buddai Swan among other places. All of them also long-time associates of Ajarn Chai in Muay Thai. Steve Wilson is in Mt. Vernon, WA and has a website at http://chalambok.us . Greg Nelson is in St. Paul, Minnesota. His school is the Minnesota Martial Arts Academy. Don't remember the website offhand, but it should be easy to find. Mike Walrath is in Eugene, OR. As I said, he teaches, but isn't up to much hard physical work anymore.
They've all got KK and other old Thai martial arts. I mention Buddai Swan because it was a known (and highly respected) quantity back when they studied there.
They've all got KK and other old Thai martial arts. I mention Buddai Swan because it was a known (and highly respected) quantity back when they studied there.
Thunder Foot
Brown Belt
that site doesn't work. And do you know what style of Boran is taught at the Buddhai Swan? It's something to look into.
blackdiamondcobra
Purple Belt
Thunderfoot:
The Muay Boran taught at the Buddhai Sawan was part of the physical education teachings and probably the forerunner of DeCarsis' form of physical education muay boran.
On my dvd set Krabi Krabong: The Buddhai Sawan Path, you can see on Disc 1 the muay boran training overview into the krabi krabong training.
http://www.buddhaisawanpath.com
The Muay Boran taught at the Buddhai Sawan was part of the physical education teachings and probably the forerunner of DeCarsis' form of physical education muay boran.
On my dvd set Krabi Krabong: The Buddhai Sawan Path, you can see on Disc 1 the muay boran training overview into the krabi krabong training.
http://www.buddhaisawanpath.com
Thunder Foot
Brown Belt
Ah I see. Well, I've read the entirety of DeCesaris' and no where in there does he reference the Buddhai Swan nor give credit to the organization... so I doubt thats where his Boran comes from, and is besides the point because he hardly has references in the first place, hehe.
Anyhow, what style of Boran does the Buddhai Swan practice? Muay Lopburi, Korat, Chaiya, Ta Sao??? I know it can't simply be a generic term like "Muay Boran". :asian:
Anyhow, what style of Boran does the Buddhai Swan practice? Muay Lopburi, Korat, Chaiya, Ta Sao??? I know it can't simply be a generic term like "Muay Boran". :asian:
blackdiamondcobra
Purple Belt
Thunder foot
You are missing my point in entirety. The Physical Education department set up this system of Muay Boran for young children, high school and college kids as way of reminding them of the past. It is just a composite system developed by the teachers in the phys ed department to be implemented in a class room environment as a system of study. It is relatively safe and devoid of anything deadly. From there the teachers developed their own systems but they remained phys ed. Some Krabi Krabong systems as well come directly from the phys ed department. So the master system is from phys ed then they streamline to the others. Phys Ed was where the master index came from for Por Kru and from where De Cesarsis drew their material they might off set with their own studies and research as Por Kru definitely did which deepens it.
The authentic systems of original muay are still being taught and they have their own principles, ways of fighting etc that are distinct and not homogenized into a phys ed muay boran. Nothing wrong with the muay boran of De Cesaris, Por Kru or anyone but you must TELL the TRUTH and DEFINE what it is. If you cant you are not a master of it and pulling a charade on the people you teach.
You are missing my point in entirety. The Physical Education department set up this system of Muay Boran for young children, high school and college kids as way of reminding them of the past. It is just a composite system developed by the teachers in the phys ed department to be implemented in a class room environment as a system of study. It is relatively safe and devoid of anything deadly. From there the teachers developed their own systems but they remained phys ed. Some Krabi Krabong systems as well come directly from the phys ed department. So the master system is from phys ed then they streamline to the others. Phys Ed was where the master index came from for Por Kru and from where De Cesarsis drew their material they might off set with their own studies and research as Por Kru definitely did which deepens it.
The authentic systems of original muay are still being taught and they have their own principles, ways of fighting etc that are distinct and not homogenized into a phys ed muay boran. Nothing wrong with the muay boran of De Cesaris, Por Kru or anyone but you must TELL the TRUTH and DEFINE what it is. If you cant you are not a master of it and pulling a charade on the people you teach.
Thunder Foot
Brown Belt
I understand your point, however I don't believe you understand mine. After reading DeCesaris' book, I came to the conclusion that he prescribes the "entirety" of Muay Boran as being the composite system that you described, when people have been using the term "Muay Boran" to describe the older style of Muay prior to this amalgamation of styles, cleverly titled "Muay Boran". Now people are under the misconception that Muay Boran never existed because of this newly developed system, and because there aren't many texts on Muay Boran outside of Thailand... and DeCesaris made the first. I mean the book itself, is a compilation of magazine articles out of "Int'l Budo", and hardly gives way to any references other than opinionated articles.
But all styles of Muay Boran are divided into regional styles, which was why I asked the question which style of Muay Boran does the Buddhai Swan practice? But now thanks to your clarifcation, I understand that they too, are an amalgamation of styles... and not quite what I understand to be Boran Muay.
But all styles of Muay Boran are divided into regional styles, which was why I asked the question which style of Muay Boran does the Buddhai Swan practice? But now thanks to your clarifcation, I understand that they too, are an amalgamation of styles... and not quite what I understand to be Boran Muay.
JBrainard
Senior Master
Everything Tellner states above is correct except the website. Try:
http://www.chalambok.com/index.html
