Oh dear... dangers of not testing things

[Bigshadow]

-If all that is needed then it makes it a bad demonstration imo.

OK... Maybe you could start another thread and explain just how you would approach demonstrating a "how-to" but in a fashion that all the participants can see the smallest of movements so they can partner up and start doing it?

 

[RoninPimp]

I'm sorry, where should we look for this? You being the expert in such things.

-If he had the credentials they would be easy to find on his page. If I was selling something in the MA's mine would be.

 

[RoninPimp]

I found this post from another and figured I'd chime in. I am by no means what so ever a student of systema, but I aspire to be. My teacher, is working with a great systema teacher, actually a very gifted man in all ends of Martial Arts, he may offer classes at the Dojo.

I witnessed systema first at a Kempo seminar in Cape Cod, MA. One of the teachers there was Arthur Sennott, of Systema: New England: http://russianmartialart.org/ . Sorry to say that his videos aren't working right now, but you can use his site to jump to another or even email him, from what I have seen in him, he is a fountain of knowledge and is willing to teach anyone who listens.

At the seminar Mr. Sennott taught us some basic systema techniques. Some may say that training slows down and prepares the victim/attacker from true usage, but I will say this is not so in all cases. During the seminar I work with a CCMAA systema student. He was my size, and looked as though he would clash it out with me. We both tried to out muscle each other all day. You know what, the moves work! Not even one hour of practice and the simple muscle manipulation work every time.

Now, Arthur didn't do any chi like yoda move that was shown in the video, but there is something to the way Mr. Sennott threw his punches. When he hit you, it was like you got hit by a car. I know first hand as I volunteered to take some punches. He left bullseye like rings on my stomach in shades of blue, black, green and yellow and the blow knocked me back a couple of inches, sending pain to my groin up to my chest and arms!

Systema is no joke and what amazes me even more, is that its conditioning appears to be next to nothing. His student Matt (we all feel bad for Matt), took at least one, to two hundred punches throughout the day, which led to Arthur asking for assistance. But Matt took it! And stood right back up. I know, that Arthur didn't hit me as hard as he hit Matt. With me, it hurt and I took about ten, probably could have toughed out another five, and macho'd another five because puking. When he hit Matt, you saw kidney shots, liver shots, and even hyper-extended elbows.

Do yourself a favor, if you are really serious, schedule a seminar! Must see for yourself.

-And you tried these techniques you learned against a resisting oponent?

 

[RoninPimp]

Not really, just that last part (explained after). 7th grade science doesn't cover the flinch reflex and how to manipulate. Imagine if you will, you are jogging (or walking fast) along and your talking with a friend or looking off to side at something. Then the moment you turn your head to look forward you see this huge tree limb about to slam into your neck and/or chest. So your body reacts on it's on and your neck, head and chest stop, and your inertia carries your hips forward and you slam to the ground on your back (lack of balance). The limb may not even touch you, but it occupied space your body needed to complete it's action (stepping). You didn't think about doing that, your body does it as a natural self preservation mechanism. That I believe is the flinch reflex.

On a side note, if a person does not have good control of their body movement and a good judge of timing and distance, they won't be very successful at doing that. This is one of those learning to walk before learning to run scenarios.

Try teaching that to 7th graders. In fact, it is difficult for many adults to grasp too.

I will admit the part that bothered me was the final no hands thing as the guy was laying on the ground. I will give you that one.

-Manipulating the flinch reflex? Come on...That sounds like complete nonsense to me.

 

[Bigshadow]

-Manipulating the flinch reflex? Come on...That sounds like complete nonsense to me.

That's OK, I completely understand.

 

[MA-Caver]

Video link didn't work... was it removed... all I gotten was a blank screen.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Ronin won't show up at any Systema event or school. It is outside his comfort zone and the people I met at an event in Toronto a while back would have little patience with his attitude.

 

[RoninPimp]

Ronin won't show up at any Systema event or school. It is outside his comfort zone and the people I met at an event in Toronto a while back would have little patience with his attitude.

-You don't know me at all to make that claim. You are wrong at any rate.

 

[RoninPimp]

That's OK, I completely understand.

-No worries. We can agree to disagree on this point.

 

[Bigshadow]

Video link didn't work... was it removed... all I gotten was a blank screen.

They may have yanked them.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Link works for me.

 

[Don Roley]

-Manipulating the flinch reflex? Come on...That sounds like complete nonsense to me.

Only because you lack the experience to understand. I have seen and experienced the actions bigshadow was talking about. I would have to say it is a bit more than manipulating the flinch reflexes and more being aware enough and experienced enough to take advantage of anything the other gives you.

Easier said than done. I can't do it other than getting someone to flinch backward because my fingers are near their eyes and such. But some folks with a lot more experience than I can make me certain I am about to get a beating in some way and freeze me, make me move to avoid what I think coming and generally make me look like a puppet on a string.

 

[Makalakumu]

Only because you lack the experience to understand. I have seen and experienced the actions bigshadow was talking about. I would have to say it is a bit more than manipulating the flinch reflexes and more being aware enough and experienced enough to take advantage of anything the other gives you.

Easier said than done. I can't do it other than getting someone to flinch backward because my fingers are near their eyes and such. But some folks with a lot more experience than I can make me certain I am about to get a beating in some way and freeze me, make me move to avoid what I think coming and generally make me look like a puppet on a string.

Interesting. Would you say that you are moving because you are taught to move that way or is the way you are moving something that is completely natural in anyone?

 

[Bigshadow]

Interesting. Would you say that you are moving because you are taught to move that way or is the way you are moving something that is completely natural in anyone?

May I offer my opinion? To answer the question, I believe the answer is we are taught to move naturally through budo, unlearning the unnatural movement we received from our peers and parents as we developed.

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm a tad skeptical of "no handed" throws, but that doesn't mean I think they are impossible. The world is a big place, lots of things could happen, and I haven't even experienced a fraction of those things.

My only experience with this came at the hands of a 5th dan in Takeda Ryu. I rushed in to attack once and got blasted with a stiff arm technique. When I came in again, I saw the same technique come at me and I moved out of the way. My opponent moved also, I fell off balance and hit the ground.

I wouldn't classify that as a "no handed" throw, though. It was just good tai sabaki. And I don't know that it would have worked if I hadn't been previously hit right before.

 

[Steve]

Not sure why, but this very old thread intrigues me. So, where did the community eventually come down on this video? It looks like complete nonsense to me, and now that a couple of years have gone by, have we reached a consensus that this is ridiculous?