No Smoking Laws

[Rich Parsons]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071223/hl_afp/lifestylefrancehealthtobacco


At the above link the following article canbe found:

France prepares to stub out smoking in cafes

I also know that the city of Chicago will do the same 1/1/2008 as France is doing.

1) Do you think this is a good thing?

2) Will this cause a problem for economies or bars etcetera?

3) Will the problems be only short term if there are any?


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Pesonally, I do not like smoking. In today's society I cannot find one study to show the benefits of smoking tobacco. (* Medicinal usages of other substances is another thread please *). I can find studies that show in moderation that alcohol is good for people.

I think that some people will create a backlash effect, but as we have seen the non-smoking sections grow to be larger than smoking sections, I think over time (* 6 months to 9 months *) that the bars and cafes will still be able to make a profit.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I think the decision to make an establishment smoking or smoke free should be up to the owner. Anyone who doesn't like being in a smokey environment can easily choose not to go.

If California is a good example, it won't hurt the bars for very long.

 

[Tez3]

In England we've had no smoking in public buildings since July 1st and it's been longer in Scotland and it's brilliant! It's fine to say if you don't like smoke don't go where people are smoking but what if you work somewhere where there's smoking? don't say don't work there because the economic times we are in mean you have to work where you can.
Already health benefits are being felt by bar staff.
From Wikipedia Quote Researchers at the University of Dundee found significant improvements in the health of bar staff in the two months following the ban. They tested bar workers' lung function and inflammatory markers a month before the ban came in, and again two months after it had been introduced. The number showing symptoms related to passive smoking fell from more than 80% to less than half, with reduced levels of nicotine in the blood and improvements in lung function of as much as 10%.[40]
A 2007 study of the effect of the ban in Scotland showed that there was 17% year-on-year drop in heart attack admissions since the ban was introduced in March 2006. Unquote

It hasn't hurt pubs and clubs at all, people who want to smoke just have to go outside now, there's nearly always a shelter for them now provided by the premises. it's accepted by everyone now. The only problem is in the workplace where people who smoke seem to have more breaks than those of us who don't smoke!!

 

[tellner]

If you can't smoke crack in an establishment there's no reason you should be able to use even more harmful and addictive drugs

 

[Rich Parsons]

In England we've had no smoking in public buildings since July 1st and it's been longer in Scotland and it's brilliant! It's fine to say if you don't like smoke don't go where people are smoking but what if you work somewhere where there's smoking? don't say don't work there because the economic times we are in mean you have to work where you can.
Already health benefits are being felt by bar staff.
From Wikipedia Quote Researchers at the University of Dundee found significant improvements in the health of bar staff in the two months following the ban. They tested bar workers' lung function and inflammatory markers a month before the ban came in, and again two months after it had been introduced. The number showing symptoms related to passive smoking fell from more than 80% to less than half, with reduced levels of nicotine in the blood and improvements in lung function of as much as 10%.[40]
A 2007 study of the effect of the ban in Scotland showed that there was 17% year-on-year drop in heart attack admissions since the ban was introduced in March 2006. Unquote

It hasn't hurt pubs and clubs at all, people who want to smoke just have to go outside now, there's nearly always a shelter for them now provided by the premises. it's accepted by everyone now. The only problem is in the workplace where people who smoke seem to have more breaks than those of us who don't smoke!!

A few years ago to address the "Extra" breaks all the non-smokers would get up form their desks or meetings at 3:00 PM exactly and go get an ice cream bar or pop and talk about non work stuff. It was nice and it made a point about the interruptions smoking was causing.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I like the idea of a $10 tax per pack, and no smoking in workplaces or public buildings, or 100 feet around them.

Now, if they could just mandate that smokers wash the stink off themselves and their clothes, my eyes would feel better...

 

[newGuy12]

Its just another way for the nanny state to take care of you. People cannot run their own lives, they need the assistance of Big Brother, and are getting it.

 

[Big Don]

So, the property owner/proprietor isn't allowed to regulate what LEGAL activities are done in his place of business? I worked in a bar and visited many when CA enacted it's ban of smoking in bars. The vast majority of bartenders and cocktail waitresses smoked. The idea that cocktail waitressing is the only job someone could get is foolish at best. Freedom means that you don't have to approve of everything everyone else does. If you don't like the atmosphere, as a client or an employee, go elsewhere, no one is stopping you.
There is a restaurant in Sacramento which had a separate smoking section, double doors, separate heating and ventilation, etc, the only people who went, and btw, worked in the smoking section were those who chose to. But, freedom is only for popular things, I guess...

 

[grydth]

Its just another way for the nanny state to take care of you. People cannot run their own lives, they need the assistance of Big Brother, and are getting it.

There are few things more despicable than the nanny state, which supposedly keeps us safe in return for killing our spirit and freedom. It is based on the notion that the large majority of those reading this are so incompetent as to not be able to manage their own affairs or make their own decisions. But a few demigods - guess who? - can decide for the rest of us.

I find smoking to be a costly and disgusting activity - but should I be able to enforce my own tastes upon everyone else? Wait until the martial arts are deemed too dangerous and unacceptable for sheeple to engage in. Think that won't come - and sooner rather than later?

To the extent that a business owner wants to run - and clearly post - his shop as being for adult smokers, consenting adults should be able to visit.

The fact that France and California are doing something should present a clear warning to the sane portions of the planet.

 

[Omar B]

They have the non smoking law here in NY and my friend who owns a bar gets hosed because of it. He's got a small bar and it's main selling point is the large deck that looks out on the East River and he used to give out free cigars. It's such a pain to enforce that he doesn't usually bother. If you are out at a bar on a Saturday people are gonna be drinking and smoking, if you don't like it don't go out. I don't see people going to crack houses and complain about the crack.

There's no force involved, people smoke by choice, the non-smoking majority has no right to determine what smokers do. It is after all legal right? A majority vote does not make it right to strip away someone's freedom.

 

[Bigshadow]

Well, a smoking area or smoking section is much the same as a pissing area or section of a pool. Would you like to swim in the that sort of pool?

Not me!!!

In fact those laws have been in place in Florida for years!!!!

 

[Drac]

They passed the No Smoking law here last year, and the bar scenes NEVER recovered..All those people that said they would go out more often if there was no smoking LIED..They were running radio spots saying that the party is going on and to come and check it out..It didn't help

 

[Bigshadow]

They have the non smoking law here in NY and my friend who owns a bar gets hosed because of it. He's got a small bar and it's main selling point is the large deck that looks out on the East River and he used to give out free cigars. It's such a pain to enforce that he doesn't usually bother.

Out on decks, it isn't a big problem in my opinion unless I get seated downwind from one of those nasty things. Or they seat someone upwind from me. If I seat myself, I will likely move if one rudely sits up wind from me, [sarcasm] aghast!!!... since it would be rude for me to say something to them, being that I was seated first[/sarcasm]

 

[Drac]

The patio bars here are making a killing...If non-smoking is so today the why is it there is always an hour wait( or more) for a seat there????

 

[Bigshadow]

The patio bars here are making a killing...If non-smoking is so today the why is it there is always an hour wait( or more) for a seat there????

Patios are popular no matter whether one smokes or not. Of course that is region specific. Many places here in Florida, during most of the year, you don't want to be on a patio for very long, especially in the evening! Better bring some bug repellant! :lol: But then again all the cigarette smoke might run the bugs off.

 

[ktaylor75]

I am in Massachuetts and when they first passed the smoking ban in this area, many people complained. But now it is just accepted as commonplace and not so many complaints are being voiced. I must say that I rather enjoy being able to go out to eat with my children and not having my kids inhale cigarette smoke with each swallow of their food. Unless there were walls and doors dividing the restaraunt, having a smoking/non-smoking side did not accomplish anything as the smoke still drifted.

 

[FearlessFreep]

When your business model and financial success is based on allowing your customers to engage in a habit that is harmful not only to them but all your other customers and employees... I would expect from a purely ethical point of view you would want to change your business model.

I don't think it should be illegal.

I think it should be common courtesy

 

[tellner]

The only thing more despicable is the Abusive Daddy State.

It makes you afraid in order to make you eager to give up your freedoms.

It makes you poor to enrich the wealthy and makes you disgustingly grateful for the privilege.

It makes you less safe, less secure, poorer and sicker and claims that that is "freedom".

It destroys whatever we hold in common in order to make its owners happy.

It believes that morality is a club to beat the little people with but an unnecessary encumbrance for the powerful.

It believes in the Market. But only as a way of keeping anyone who works for a living desperate and destitute. The rich and its corporate Masters get to shove both trotters in the public trough.

It tells you that women, the workers, the poor, the ill, the mad, the hungry, the naked and those who value civil liberties are "special interests". But trans national conglomerates, the fabulously wealthy, the recipients of its tax-fattened largesse and religious whack jobs who want to turn the country into a theocracy are "Real Americans" and "a community".

It keeps dildos out of vaginas on pain of twenty five years of hard prison time. But it fights tooth and nail to keep lead in toys and put it back into the air.

To the Abusive Daddy State you are a surplus unit of production. You have no rights. You are a nuisance and need to be kept under its heel on fear of imprisonment, torture and death.

That's Conservatism. That's large-L Libertarianism once you scratch off the shiny paint. That's Christian politics.

That is hell with the fire put out.

 

[Tez3]

When your business model and financial success is based on allowing your customers to engage in a habit that is harmful not only to them but all your other customers and employees... I would expect from a purely ethical point of view you would want to change your business model.

I don't think it should be illegal.

I think it should be common courtesy

Nice post! it's fine people sounding off about the freedom to smoke, no one is actually stopping them smoking, they can smoke till their lungs turn black if they wish just don't do it in a public building where it can damage others. It's not just bars and pubs, its any public building here. Why should we have to put up with second hand smoke on trains, buses,the underground, workplaces etc. Its not places we can chose whether to go to, its places we have to go to in order to work and lead a normal life that we should be free to breathe in. I fail to see how it's Big Brother when it's protecting us from those that feel we should share their habit!
Omar B says that you don't go to a crack house then complain about people using crack but what if the crack users come into your workplace, your child's nursery and school, doctors waiting rooms, sit on the bus next to you? would you have your childrens taught with the teacher having a fag stuck in her mouth? the nurse giving you medications puffing away? being served in the deli along with clouds of cigarette smoke? All these people have the right to smoke don't they?

 

[Omar B]

When your business model and financial success is based on allowing your customers to engage in a habit that is harmful not only to them but all your other customers and employees... I would expect from a purely ethical point of view you would want to change your business model.
I don't think it should be illegal.
I think it should be common courtesy

A business model that encourages a harmful habit? Like everything else that goes on at a bar? It's just smoking nazi's trying to to exert some level of control over another person's life and choices.

My bud who owns a bar has seen since the laws have passes his business drop considerably. Even I've been hanging out with people and when i suggested "Lets go over to Jimmy's" the response many times is negative because they can't smoke there anymore or have to go outside in the winter cold to smoke. Meanwhile, where are all these people who don't go to bars because they are filled with smoke? That's right, they never came. The same people hanging out before the law are the same people hanging out now, just with the smokers not there, it's exclusionary.