No candidate leaves behind criticism of education law

[Kacey]

From the Palm Beach Post - but I found the link through an e-zine I get from the Council for Exceptional Children.

Depending on which presidential candidate you ask, No Child Left Behind is a costly and disastrous foray into federal control of schools or a lofty plan that needs fixing.
No matter who becomes the next president, expect significant changes to President Bush's signature education program.
It's rare that Democrats and Republicans agree on anything in a presidential election. But No Child Left Behind, the most sweeping and test-heavy federal education reform in history, may be the uniting issue of the campaign season.
<snip>
Some candidates now wonder whether it was realistic to expect that all students perform on grade level.
Both political parties had long-standing philosophical reasons to oppose No Child Left Behind. Republicans, generally in favor of local control, resented the idea of the federal government telling states how to fix low-performing schools and withholding money if they didn't comply. Democrats argued that the law's sanctions for low test scores targeted schools attended by poor or minority students, who are more likely to be academically behind.

Farther down, the article gives the viewpoint on this issue from several candidates in each party.

 

[crushing]

From the Palm Beach Post - but I found the link through an e-zine I get from the Council for Exceptional Children.

Farther down, the article gives the viewpoint on this issue from several candidates in each party.

See what happens when the parties (Bush/Kennedy) work together? We get something that no one likes. Oddly enough, the article doesn't mention Sen. Kennedy when discussing NCLB.

Can someone help me understand Sen. Clinton's response?

"Hillary Clinton: 'What I object to with No Child Left Behind is not that they want to have some measurement, because measurements are important. You can't not measure whether people are learning. That's got to be done. But what I object to is this idea that there is this standard of so-called proficiency, and that it doesn't matter how much improvement a child, a class or a school makes; if you don't get this measure, then you're a failure.'"

 

[BrandiJo]

I think basically she is saying, we shouldn't have a standard bar we should just want and seek improvement over all. ... but i could be miss reading it too.

 

[michaeledward]

She is talking about the time value of education; suggesting we need to recognize the difference between a photograph and a motion picture. Measure progress, as opposed to status.

In AA, they talk about seeking 'progress' rather than 'perfection'.

Perfection can be measured in three dimensions.
Progress can only be measured with the added fourth dimension, time.


EDIT ...

P.S. Incidentally, Senator Kennedy is actually pretty upset with the way NCLB has been implemented.

http://kennedy.senate.gov/issues_and_agenda/issue.cfm?id=076416df-2ae1-42e3-a840-df17d59eccc6 - END EDIT

 

[Big Don]

P.S. Incidentally, Senator Kennedy is actually pretty upset with the way NCLB has been implemented.

http://kennedy.senate.gov/issues_and_agenda/issue.cfm?id=076416df-2ae1-42e3-a840-df17d59eccc6 - END EDIT

Well, when he was helping to write it, perhaps he should have made better suggestions. How NCLB has become something else to bash Bush for is disgusting, especially given the huge support it had from Democrats, but, then that is their M.O., praise then slam...

 

[BrandiJo]

Ok so what is wrong with nclb? i mean i am studying to be a teacher and from what i understand of it it isnt as terrible as everyone is making it sound. BUT i am only getting the info from my profs so they may be a bit biased cus they have to keep putting out teachers willing to teach.

 

[CoryKS]

It's interesting to see the contrast between what was intended by NCLB and what was actually implemented. For example, my son's class is working on their multiplication tables. But rather than start on zero and work their way up, they are learning them in the sequence "0, 1, 2, 3, 5, 10" or some such. Why? Because those are the ones that are on the test, so they learn those first with the expectation that they will go back and learn the remaining tables.

Now, I'm sure that the folks who designed the test were expecting that all the tables would be learned and chose those tables as a sampling of the overall curriculum. But there does seem to be a bit of an observer effect.

 

[michaeledward]

Ok so what is wrong with nclb? i mean i am studying to be a teacher and from what i understand of it it isnt as terrible as everyone is making it sound. BUT i am only getting the info from my profs so they may be a bit biased cus they have to keep putting out teachers willing to teach.

The NEA has proposed the following changes to the existing program.

http://www.nea.org/esea/policy.html

• Use more than test scores to measure student learning and school performance.
  • Include multiple measures of student learning and school effectiveness instead of the current one-day snapshot based solely on standardized tests.
  • Reward progress over time to improve student achievement at all levels.
  • Recognize individual needs of students (Special Education; English Language Learners.
    
• Reduce class size to help students learn.
  
  • Restore the class size reduction program.

• Increase the number of highly qualified teachers in our schools.
  
  
  • Provide financial incentives to teachers who teach in hard-to-staff schools.
  • Allow teachers who have achieved certification by the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards to be deemed "highly qualified."
  • Provide flexibility for teachers of multiple subjects, including special education and rural educators.

 

[CanuckMA]

Can someone help me understand Sen. Clinton's response?

"Hillary Clinton: 'What I object to with No Child Left Behind is not that they want to have some measurement, because measurements are important. You can't not measure whether people are learning. That's got to be done. But what I object to is this idea that there is this standard of so-called proficiency, and that it doesn't matter how much improvement a child, a class or a school makes; if you don't get this measure, then you're a failure.'"

It means that by the time you finish high school, it doesn't matter if you can read at a HS graduate level as long as you can read better than when you entered HS.

Personnaly, I think that is a pile of bovine scatology. It's the same think that got us the non-compete-final-score-dosn't matter-a tie-is-better-than-a-win in sport mentality.

If I miss a deadline at work, 'I tried my best' is not going to cut it as an excuse. What the hell is so wrong about demanding that kids be able to read certain text, do certain math problems at any given grade?

I'm so bloody sick and tired of the mamby-pamby don't hurt Johnny's self esteem crap.

We are creating a generation of whimps.

 

[Kacey]

Ok so what is wrong with nclb? i mean i am studying to be a teacher and from what i understand of it it isnt as terrible as everyone is making it sound. BUT i am only getting the info from my profs so they may be a bit biased cus they have to keep putting out teachers willing to teach.

The biggest problem with NCLB is that it assumes that all children are created equal.

This variation floats around a lot - it's come into my inbox at least every couple of months - it demonstrates the problem fairly clearly.

No Child Left Behind:
The Football Version

Author Unknown*​

l. All teams must make the state playoffs, and all will win the championship. If a team does not win the championship, they will be on probation until they are the champions, and coaches will be held accountable.
2. All kids will be expected to have the same football skills at the same time and in the same conditions. No exceptions will be made for interest in football, a desire to perform athletically, or genetic abilities or disabilities. ALL KIDS WILL PLAY FOOTBALL AT A PROFICIENT LEVEL
3. Talented players will be asked to work out on their own without instruction. This is because the coaches will be using all their instructional time with the athletes who aren't interested in football, have limited athletic ability, or whose parents don't like football.
4. Games will be played year round, but statistics will only be kept in the 4th, 8th, and 11th games.
5. This will create a New Age of sports where every school is expected to have the same level of talent and all teams will reach the same minimal goals.
If no child gets ahead, then no child will be left behind.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you treat all children the same, then you do not allow for the differences that make them individuals. This is not a good model for reaching the potential of the greatest number of students. I don't know what your professors are telling you - but I'm a teacher, and I don't know a teacher who likes it. Accountability is fine, and I have no problem being accountable for what I teach - but accountability based on a single, annual, high stakes test, and based on the assumption that all children can perform at grade level on said test, is not realistic.

As a special education teacher, I teach the kids who are not going to make AYP (annual yearly progress) - they are behind when they get to me, and even if they make more than a year's growth in a year (unlikely) they are still behind - and if they catch up, they are no longer special education students. But despite that, by law, 1% of the special education and English Language Learner populations must perform at the Advanced level every year, or the entire school fails, no matter what level of performance the rest of the school achieves. Also, at least 95% of the students in the school - including 95% of every minority grouping (special ed, ELL, racial minorities, low income, etc.) must complete the test, or the school fails - again, no matter what level of performance the school achieves. Do you begin to see the problems here?

 

[heretic888]

Ok so what is wrong with nclb? i mean i am studying to be a teacher and from what i understand of it it isnt as terrible as everyone is making it sound. BUT i am only getting the info from my profs so they may be a bit biased cus they have to keep putting out teachers willing to teach.

Hi BrandiJo,

Kacey covered the issues pretty well, but I'd say...

• Teaching To The Test syndrome.
• Impossible expectations hoisted upon our students, such as 100% proficiency by 2012.
• The counterintuitive policy of slashing funding to schools that do not meet their percentage of requisite proficiency (in other words, take away money from the schools that need it the most).
• Holding the teachers and teachers alone 100% accountable for failures to meet such artificial and impossible standards.

For the record, I have yet to meet a single teacher or education specialist that didn't revile NCLB with a passion. That includes myself, of course.

Now, personally, I think NCLB is just a grandiose conspiracy to both a) line the pockets of the testing companies with financial ties to the Bush family and b) achieve the neo-Republican fantasy of dissolving the Department of Education (slashing funding to virtually 100% of public schools effectively accomplishes the same thing).

Anyone who gives half a crap about our country's children should oppose this law with their votes this year.

 

[Big Don]

Hi BrandiJo,

Kacey covered the issues pretty well, but I'd say...

• Teaching To The Test syndrome.
• Impossible expectations hoisted upon our students, such as 100% proficiency by 2012.
• The counterintuitive policy of slashing funding to schools that do not meet their percentage of requisite proficiency (in other words, take away money from the schools that need it the most).
• Holding the teachers and teachers alone 100% accountable for failures to meet such artificial and impossible standards.

For the record, I have yet to meet a single teacher or education specialist that didn't revile NCLB with a passion. That includes myself, of course.

Now, personally, I think NCLB is just a grandiose conspiracy to both a) line the pockets of the testing companies with financial ties to the Bush family and b) achieve the neo-Republican fantasy of dissolving the Department of Education (slashing funding to virtually 100% of public schools effectively accomplishes the same thing).

Anyone who gives half a crap about our country's children should oppose this law with their votes this year.

Since you managed to slam republicans and the Bush family, perhaps you'd care to explain the connection Ted Kennedy had with this and all the Democrat votes it got.

 

[Makalakumu]

Hey, I'm a liberal and a teacher and I think that we need to take a **** load of dynamite and blow the federal department of education sky high. NCLB is one reason and all of the other unfunded mandates that have come out of this institution over the years are another. All of my senior collegues are absolutely worn down by all of these people who think they can tell them what is best for kids in their classrooms from thousands of miles away.

What all of this amounts to is ultimately disrespect. Their are a lot of self important *******s in positions of power who think they somehow have the right to second guess those who are looking kids in the eye every day and attempting to prepare them for the future.

Ask yourself, honestly ask yourself, when NCLB is gone, what's going to come next? Nothing but ********.