Nice move.
- Thread starter Rabbitthekitten
- Start date
The fall or the head nod? For the former, any Aikido, Aikijujitsu, or JJJ school. For the latter, Saturday Night Live.
One time I was in Beijing PE University and talked to Wang De-Yin (the Judo/wrestling coach instructor who trained the Chinese Olympic Judo/wrestling team) about this. He said, "If this is possible, why do you think that I'm still here for?"
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Deleted member 39746
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To be fair, id probbly be so confused by that reaction their chi would momentarily overpower mine and make me roll.
Serious question though, why would anyone whos done any jujutsu think that would work anyway? Id love to see some JJJ opinons on that sort of thing.
Serious question though, why would anyone whos done any jujutsu think that would work anyway? Id love to see some JJJ opinons on that sort of thing.
It comes from a progressively more compliant uke-nage (recipient-thrower) relationship. It starts at a normal place: I stand there and let you do a basic technique (same way everyone starts them), with no resistance. Then we add in a dash of going down because you're "supposed to", rather than because you had to. Then we get into the part that can mess everything up if not managed well: throws that I have to go for the fall myself, to avoid injury. Once you start doing those, I could develop the habit of over-reading the influence of what you're doing. That head nod seriously does move things in a direction that works with much larger movements, so it's possible to progressively teach someone to "feel thrown" at times when you're not doing nearly enough to make them fall.
Any system that plays with (either as serious techniques or as a way of investigating specific principles) very subtle ways of affecting structure can fall into this trap if not careful.
OP
Rabbitthekitten
Blue Belt
- Thread Starter
- #7
I did a couple of aikido classes. I often ended up on my back, I had no idea how I ended up there.
That is the late Seigo Okamoto, of Daito ryu Roppokai. I don't know whether his organisation has continued following his death. He was originally a student of the Kodokai before going his own way - the Kodokai is still around and you can join and train Daito ryu. They are in Hokkaido I believe.
This clip has been doing the rounds for the last couple of months, typically ridiculed as a joke.
^This. Daito ryu is know as a system devoted specifically to exactly what is described; subtle manipulation of the opponent's structure.
It's my understanding that the 'head nod' and similar practices are specifically NOT intended to be combat applicable techniques; it's the equivalent of seeing a boxer on the speed bag and laughing at his funny circular punches.
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Deleted member 39746
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Probbly why it was normal or any good school would have done randori religiously.
Would love to see contempary opinions on the matter, more in the realm of Japanese Ju jutsu schools and koryu etc. But i know the culture, especially for older folks and martial artists probbly prohibits or doesnt look fondly on critique on somone senior/in equal position otuside your org in public. (as far as i know)
id also love to know if snake oil salemen were around historically, how successful they were and what the general viewpoint on them by common people was historically, in general.
I'm a member of two of the older koryu - one being a 'jujutsu' style. As you have surmised, public criticism is not common however much is said behind closed doors. I don't really have much critique to offer myself. While I have some experience in some styles of Chinese MA that feature more intricate sensitivity training, I don't have any background in aikido or Daito ryu, and don't have any real insight to offer on the head nod stuff.
There has been talk of snake oil salesmen in Japanese martial arts for centuries; Musashi himself was famously critical of the Katori and Kashima schools in his Gorin no Sho. I think he wrote something about them traveling around peddling their wares. Funnily enough Takeda Sokaku, the man who many believe created Daito ryu in the late 1800s/early 1900s, traveled throughout Japan teaching his art to Police and military folks in seminar format, and is purported to have had over 10,000 students. He was succeeded by several of his students - there are a number of legitimate lines of Daito ryu, and they seem to have different approaches or areas of specialisation in the art. Kodo Horikawa and Sagawa Yukiyoshi (and Ueshiba Morihei of aikido) were famed for their 'aiki' techniques - this is where the Kodokai and subsequent Roppokai originate.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
The replies were priceless
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Deleted member 39746
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Having now just read some, i just want to comment. What you dont see is the sniper behind the camera for if they dont fall right.
