Naha te and Shuri te:which do you prefer?

twendkata71

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I am wondering which side of the coin do many of you prefer the Naha te(Goju ryu,Uechi ryu,etc), styles or the Shuri te( Shorin ryu, and its Japanese offshoots do you prefer? And what are the aspects of them that you take into consideration for your choice.
 

JasonASmith

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Ummm, given what I study, I'd have to say Shuri-te...
However, I am not adverse to taking a gander at the Naha-based styles...
 
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twendkata71

twendkata71

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Shotokan is actually a mixture of both. Funakoshi Gichin O sensei studied
Shuri te with Itosu Ankon, and Naha te from Azato Ankoh. I would say though his karate is more shuri te(Shorin ryu) than the Naha influence.
 

Ray B

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Shotokan is actually a mixture of both. Funakoshi Gichin O sensei studied
Shuri te with Itosu Ankon, and Naha te from Azato Ankoh. I would say though his karate is more shuri te(Shorin ryu) than the Naha influence.

Can you provide a source for this information? As far as I know,
Funakoshi never studied Naha-te (although had many opportunities).
This is according to the Hawaiian Seinenkai, Mr. Goodan's group.
Ref: http://seinenkai.com/articles/noble/noble-funakoshi2.html
About 5 or six paragraphs down. Azato (from my recollection)
was a Tomari player.

I am new here and I do not mean to be confrontational. I just wanted to
know what the basis of your statement was.

As far as adressing the original question, I have been studying Chibana-ha
Shorin-ryu since 1986. I have also a few years of Goju under my belt. I
have not a preference for or against either. I found both have excellent
qualities and are very complete systems under the right guidance. They
have more in common than they have differences.

Peace
 

searcher

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My style is amix of both, Chito-ryu. I prefer the influance of the Tomari-te. So I am going to say Shuri-te, since they are closer related.


As for why, its all in the kata.
 
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twendkata71

twendkata71

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I believe that I read that in his book Karate do my way of life. I have also read that in several articles. It has also been stated in a few articles from different sources that Funakoshi may have learned from Mabuni, and included some of Mabuni's kata into what he taught.
 

searcher

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I believe that Funakoshi studied under the guidance of Seisho Aragaki for a time. I know that some of the kata that are in Shotokan are taken from O-sensei Aragaki's lineage. Even though they are a modified version.
 
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twendkata71

twendkata71

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That is true from what I have read. Actually in his books he refers to Naha te as Shorei ryu and Shuri te as Shorin ryu. I believe that Azato was a student of Hiagoanna. I am definetely sure that with looking at some of the kata of Shotokan, which do not come from the Shorin ryu that he did study or exchange knowledge with Mabuni and he and Mabuni were friends. Mabuni was actually his senior in years of karate study even thought Funakoshi was older.
 

Brandon Fisher

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I am kinda partial to the shuri te lineage but there are aspects of naha te that I really like also. So really no set preference for me.
 

Ray B

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That is true from what I have read. Actually in his books he refers to Naha te as Shorei ryu and Shuri te as Shorin ryu. I believe that Azato was a student of Hiagoanna. I am definetely sure that with looking at some of the kata of Shotokan, which do not come from the Shorin ryu that he did study or exchange knowledge with Mabuni and he and Mabuni were friends. Mabuni was actually his senior in years of karate study even thought Funakoshi was older.

This is a quote from Funakoshi's book "Karate-do, My life."

"Meanwhile, I continued assiduously with my karate, training under a
number of teachers: Master Kiyuna, who with his bare hands could strip
the bark from a living tree in a matter of moments; Master Toonno of
Naha, one of the island's best known Confucian scholars; Master Niigaki
whose great common sense impressed me most deeply; and Master
Matsumura".

Master Toonno is Higaonna and Niigaki is Aragaki.

Itosu and Azato's teacher was Matsumura.

Funakoshi's connection to Naha-te is directly linked the it's founder.
How much influence I don't know. I do not see much in the way of
the kata practiced. Of course, things have changed since Funakoshi's
passing. Execution and interpretion of kata is different under the JKO
than when the founder was still alive.

My observance of the remaining Tomari-te is from the Shobayashi and
Matsubayashi schools of Shorin. They have a stronger influence than the
Kobayashi school. The use of shiko dachi is much more extensive.
Shotokan is kobayashi derived. Itosu taught Funakoshi and Chibana.

Goju's sanchin rooting is not any different from Shorin's naihanchi dachi.
Other than one foot being in front of the other, they both create tension
in he lower body to create rising power. This enables the practitioner
to use techniques like uppercuts and elbows more efficiently. Uprooting
an opponent is easier from this position.
 
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twendkata71

twendkata71

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Thanks for filling in the blanks for me. I will have to go back and reread that.
If Funakoshi did not study Naha te, from Azato , as I thought then how do you explain the use of Hangetsu (seisan), did he learn this from Mabuni ?
 

Ray B

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I am thinking that he might have got it from Higaonna (Toonno). If not,
as you stated earlier, he could have got in from Mabuni.

There is also a Matsumura Seisan that is practiced by the Seibukan.


Apparently there has been a version around Okinawa for a long time.
The Shotokan Hangetsu looks similar to the Seibukan Seisan.
It could be that Funakoshi learned the Matsumura version
and modified it after working with Higaonna.

Peace
 
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searcher

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Aragaki taught two versions of Seisan and he could have learned it from him.
 

cstanley

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The Matsumura Seisan became Shotokan's Hangetsu after Funakoshi got through screwing it up.
 
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twendkata71

twendkata71

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I see the similarity from the video of Master Zenpo Shimabukuro performing the kata.
I am impressed when someone out researches me. I am always out to learn. Thank you for the information.
 

Brandon Fisher

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I really like the Seisan version of the kata better than Hangetsu. I peronally do not know Seisan only hangetsu but I can see the clear differences.
 

searcher

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I have always had a desire to find out more about Seisho Aragaki. He was the most sought after master of his day and he left no school behind. He is one of the most intriguing men of his day. He taught five kata that are specifically his and those who train those kata have a direct link to him and his "lost" school. There is not much info on him and it is difficult to find, but maybe one day we will know more about this great master and man.
 

chinto

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I am wondering which side of the coin do many of you prefer the Naha te(Goju ryu,Uechi ryu,etc), styles or the Shuri te( Shorin ryu, and its Japanese offshoots do you prefer? And what are the aspects of them that you take into consideration for your choice.

I would say tamari-te as my style is about 70% tamari. but given the limitations of the question, i would say shuri-te (shorin ryu) as that is what most of the tamari te and heavily inflinced by tamari te styles are usualy referd to as.
 

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