Muhammad cartoon

[Ping898]

Has anyone been following this row with the Muslim community over political cartoons published that satire Muhammad?
Muslim countries are wanting apologies and sanctions about this...


latest BBC article

I am interested in other opinions...

I just feel like it is being blow out of proportion and that when you live in a free society and world, stuff happens. Though the cartoon I think is in bad taste, especially considering the sensitive times were are living in, I see nothing wrong with publishing it.
Personally find it similar to people/countries who do stuff in God's name as Christians that as a Christian I find morally and personally disgusting and hate being associated with.

I am hoping these countries don't give into demands for apologies and sanctions.

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

Typically, I don't get involved in religio-political conversations; but, I do disagree with using religious icons to further political agendas or widen the chasms that already exist between belief systems. The Prophet, to me, is no more a terrorist than Christ or Buddha is a terrorist. I'm no Christian. I'm not Islamic. I'm hardly a Buddhist. I'm sorta Zen; but, the jury's still out on that. Satire is one thing, blasphemy's another.

 

[arnisador]

Does anyone know a link to the cartoons themselves?

 

[Flying Crane]

Well, it may be a free society with freedom of the press, but if inflammatory items are published in the name of this freedom, expect to deal with the results. Muslims make up a large population in Europe. If people get angry over this and take some kind of actions to retaliate, i guess ya gotta admit that it was provoked. I am not saying that violence would be justified, but this just didn't need to happen and it could add more fuel to the fire.

People just need to wake up and use common sense. You don't do things to deliberately offend a large group of the population, especially when it comes to offending someone's religion. The vast majority of devout Muslims are not attached to the radical troublemakers, but it sounds like this kind of publication doesn't care to acknowledge that. They just lumped everyone together and acts like they are all a bunch of terrorists. Freedom of the press or not, it is just stupid and myopic.

 

[jdinca]

Well, it may be a free society with freedom of the press, but if inflammatory items are published in the name of this freedom, expect to deal with the results. Muslims make up a large population in Europe. If people get angry over this and take some kind of actions to retaliate, i guess ya gotta admit that it was provoked. I am not saying that violence would be justified, but this just didn't need to happen and it could add more fuel to the fire.

People just need to wake up and use common sense. You don't do things to deliberately offend a large group of the population, especially when it comes to offending someone's religion. The vast majority of devout Muslims are not attached to the radical troublemakers, but it sounds like this kind of publication doesn't care to acknowledge that. They just lumped everyone together and acts like they are all a bunch of terrorists. Freedom of the press or not, it is just stupid and myopic.

Just imagine if people here reacted this way to some of the cartoons printed on the editorial pages around the country.

 

[Flying Crane]

Just imagine if people here reacted this way to some of the cartoons printed on the editorial pages around the country.

Of course you are right, but for many of us here in this country we have a different mindset about such things. But some people, including entire populations, are very touchy about certain issues. If you provoke them they just might react. Use common sense. You don't go around picking fights on an individual basis, so don't do in on a population level either. Just because you have a freedom of speech or freedom of the press, don't do something stupid.

 

[jdinca]

Of course you are right, but for many of us here in this country we have a different mindset about such things. But some people, including entire populations, are very touchy about certain issues. If you provoke them they just might react. Use common sense. You don't go around picking fights on an individual basis, so don't do in on a population level either. Just because you have a freedom of speech or freedom of the press, don't do something stupid.

No argument.

 

[Ping898]

Does anyone know a link to the cartoons themselves?

Here are all or some of them

http://face-of-muhammed.blogspot.com/

 

[Flatlander]

An interesting paradox. We ask them to be tolerant of our freedom to criticize, they ask us to be tolerant of their traditions. Neither of us really are.

I can understand that they feel offended. However, are they justified in asking that non-muslims not caricature or otherwise represent the face of Muhammad? I don't believe so. A non-muslim is by no way bound to their traditions. They likewise are bound to the traditions of no other. I think they're being overly sensitive.

It's different than the Salman Rushdie thing, I think. Wasn't he muslim?

 

[Marvin]

here is another interesting link to/ about the drawings

PLEASE NOTE: THERE ARE SOME GRAPHIC IMAGES AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE

http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/

 

[Don Roley]

What should disturb people is the fact that the international Muslim community is not just mad at the paper that printed the pictures. They are mad at the entire country because the goverment refused to censor the paper.

They actually expect goverments to crack down on anything they do not like. At the same time, they are screaming about freedom.

Oh, and for comparison of what goes on in Muslim newspapers, including the cartoon pages, check out www.memri.org for something scary.

 

[aplonis]

Whosoever is wont to dish out slander of other religions...to belittle their dogma...to destory their relics...to outright ban their practices...such as these have long since forsaken their own right to complain so boisterously over anything half so small as a silly cartoon.

Let the moslems rebuild the Afganistan standing Buddha statues, let them repair the damage to ancient Egyptian relics too. Only then might I muster some small tear of sympathy for their hurt feelings over this mere paper cartoon.

 

[Andrew Green]

They actually expect goverments to crack down on anything they do not like. At the same time, they are screaming about freedom.

Freedom is kind of a funny thing.

Perhaps they are sreaming about freedom to follow their religion without being discriminated against because of it?

The cartoons are in very bad taste, I think just about everyone would agree with that. And I think most people would realise before hand that they would offend the Muslim community beforehand.

Why add more gas to a fire that is already out of control?

Or let's look at other groups, would anti-semantic cartoons be tolerated? Racist? Portraying Jesus as a pedophile?

Freedom of the press is important, unfortunately it opens the door for abusing that right, free press should not mean the right to promote what could be considered hate speech.

Is the Muslim community overreacting? Maybe, and perhaps this taken individually would not get much attention, but their culture, religion and everything about them has been under constant attack for a while, perhaps they are just at a point where every drop of water overfills the cup...

 

[Flying Crane]

Well said, Mr. Green.

We need to realize that the radical, militant extremist Muslims do not represent the greater Muslim population. Ridicule of an entire religion is not an appropriate way to deal with legitimate problems with the radical groups. Ridicule of the entire religion will give the radical groups more strength, as others who would not otherwise join with them reach the end of their tolerance and decide the radical groups just might be right.

 

[Ping898]

See this is not the proper way to resolve your problems with the cartoon and is a contributing factor to why the cartoon got drawn in the first place

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-02-02-cartoonuproar_x.htm

Gunmen surround EU office to protest cartoon


GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Armed militants angered by a cartoon drawing of the Prophet Mohammed published in European newspapers surrounded EU offices in Gaza on Thursday and threatened to kidnap foreigners as outrage over the caricatures spread across the Islamic world.
More than 300 students demonstrated in Pakistan, chanting "Death to France!" and "Death to Denmark!" — two of the countries where newspapers published the drawings. Other protests were held in Syria and Lebanon, while officials in Afghanistan, Iran and Indonesia condemned the publication. In Paris, the daily France Soir fired its managing editor after it ran the caricatures Wednesday.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Flying Crane & Andrew Green

Well said.

First, what I am saying here is a simplification of a very complicated situation.

In the Middle East you have Muslim fighting Muslim, Sunni vs. Shiite (Sunni - accepts the first four caliphs as rightful successors of Muhammad & Shiite - believe that Mohammad designated his son-in-law, 'Ali, to succeed him as leader of the umma of Islam) the only thing you can be certain that they agree on is Muhammad was a profit.

You also still have many people of that region that view anything coming from the west as another Crusade. It is a very religiously charged area where most conflicts have religion as their basis.

In a time when there are Western troops on Muslim lands I do not believe these cartoons are going to do anything but give extremists an excuse and anger the rest of Muslim world unnecessarily.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Exchange Muhammad for Christ and Christians for Muslims, and the same people cautioning that we should 'be more sensitive' would in turn be saying that in a free society, people should have the absolute right to vioice their opinions.

It is only because they fear provoking what they know is a predisposition to violence, that they seek to placate certain 'interests' at every turn. It's ironic that we have 'free speech' so long as we don't offend someone who might start shooting or blowing things up. Free speech means that sometimes people are offended. I hear calls of 'responsible' speech, but freedom is based on the risk of irresponsible behavior.

The 'Crowded movie' theatre argument does not apply in this situation, as it is based on a type of speech that will immediately arouse the average rational person to respond in a certain manner. It does no apply to irrational person, or the irrational response, that says that we should respond violence toward anyone who happens to disagree.

Since when are religious Icons OFF-limits in western society? For decades we've considered religious icons fair game. It is only with Islamic icons that we seem timid. Why?

 

[Don Roley]

We need to realize that the radical, militant extremist Muslims do not represent the greater Muslim population.

By the logic these protestors are using, they are representative of Arabs and Muslims.

Remember, this is not a protest aimed at just the newspaper and those tied to it like advertisers. That would be understandable.

No, in this case the protestors in the street are protesting and boycotting an entire nation. They do so because they hold that the goverment should have stepped in and censored this before it went to press.

So if they believe that an entire populace can be blamed for a newspaper and giving the freedom to say even that which is not popular, then it stands to reason that the Arab and Musllim world can be blamed as a whole for what is printed in their media.

Has anyone bothered to check that link to www.memri.org I posted? Go ahead and read some of the translated articles that have been run with the full knowledge and support of Muslim countries. Unlike western secular democracies, stories in that part of the world have to be cleared by the goverment- so they are more responsible than us.

You will find that it is treated as an established fact that the holocaust never existed, Jews rule the world, 9-11 was an American plot, etc.

So, if the populace at large is to blame for a newspaper, then the Muslim world is to blame for this hateful, bigoted trash.

I think that the West should go on the offensive here. As I said, Arab goverments are saying that the Danish and other goverments should somehow apologize for this. If they think the goverment is responsible for the news, then they can hardly wiggle out when the example at Memri are shown them. We should push for them to make their press truely free or at least stop the stupid, hate- filled messages that are the norm for them.

Take lemons and make lemonade. Take the enemies' attack and turn it against them. Don't go on the defensive and let them push back the idea of a free press by being silent.

 

[Flatlander]

As this draws out, it is interesting to observe just how differently we see things, as free people. The context of our worldview has been forming and evolving for a great deal of time. Theirs has gone a very different way.

It's comforting to know that our way of doing things is consistently improving because of the right to express our view, to criticize, even to do so in jest, should we choose.

As long as we don't infringe on the rights of others.

How are we beholden to the values of another state? We are beholden only to the values of our representative authorities, placed there by our own collective choosing.

I mean, do they feel an obligation to observe any of our religious traditions? Perhaps that's not a fair comparison, as ours is a more secular society. Well, ours is, anyway.......

At any rate, our press is free to print what they choose. And I'd be fairly annoyed if, in acting as my representative, my government became internationally apologetic for that freedom.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Very good points, I admit when I responded I was looking at the picture based on the Middle East, since that is what I seem to be reading a lot about lately.

I have to agree with what is being said here, if you are in a country that has freedom of speech you should not be attempting to force your national beliefs, outside of that country, upon them.

Although I do not know the rights and laws of Denmark, I know in America there is a separation of Church and state, although of the developed nations the US tends to be more puritanical. This separation gives us a different view of government. However in the Muslim world no such separation exists. But if you have chosen to live in another country or do business in that county you should be aware of this difference and not attempt to force your agenda or beliefs down the throat of that country.

If you were Muslim in Denmark would you have the right to be angry, sure. And do you have the right to protest, I assume you do in Denmark. But do you have the right to demand they change, possibly. But that depends, as previously mentioned by sgtmac 46, if you would be equally as outraged by an off color cartoon about Christ, Buddha, Vishnu, etc. If these cartoons do not bother you then deal with it and move on.