http://www.fmadigest.com/Issues/spe...l-Edition_Modern-Arnis-Family-Institution.pdf
Very interesting read. All I can say is, WOW!
Very interesting read. All I can say is, WOW!
Modern Arnis Mania in FMA Digest
- Thread starter The Game
- Start date
The interview with Rosemary Presas was an interesting read to say the least and raised my eyebrows. As has been alluded to elsewhere here on MT and FMA Talk, there are probably some complicated feelings with regard to Professor and the PI and USA Modern Arnis players. All I can say is whew !
Good reading. Thanks for the link!
Interesting read with some good facts.
But like everybody else, there are different truths, different realities.
The Presas family certainly has their point of view of what happened and they are trying to transport this view as the only truth.
But it is not.
Other people have others. GM Remy met many people and there is nobody, who can claim the sole leadership in Modern Arnis in the world any more.
And hardly anybody actually does.
We all try to do our share, that GM Remy and his Modern Arnis will not be forgotten.
Just one little thing to think about:
If family was so important to GM Remy as it is written there, why did GM Remy never try to contact his wife and kids during his multiple visits to the Philippines in the late 90s? Why did he not meet them and trained with them? And I know he did not.
And some facts are just not true.
I have seen the 9th Dan certificate of GM Christino Vasquez, signed by G Remy Presas.
Actually, I even have a copy of this here on my computer.
So it is not correct, that Jerry, Rodel, Vic and Roland were the only ones who got 8th Dan or higher from GM Remy.
As to the best of my knowledge, GM Rene Tongson got 8th Dan from GM Remy as well..
This is only an example, that not all fact are correct here and that the Presas family is not aware of everything, that GM Remy Presas has done, for they had no communication with him for more than 25 years. (exept Demetrio who met his father 3 times in those 25 years).
I do respect Remy Jr. for giving up his academic career to teach Modern Arnis instead, but he is only the leader for Modern Arnis in MARPPIO, not for all the other Modern Arnis practitioners in the world.
Regards
Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis
But like everybody else, there are different truths, different realities.
The Presas family certainly has their point of view of what happened and they are trying to transport this view as the only truth.
But it is not.
Other people have others. GM Remy met many people and there is nobody, who can claim the sole leadership in Modern Arnis in the world any more.
And hardly anybody actually does.
We all try to do our share, that GM Remy and his Modern Arnis will not be forgotten.
Just one little thing to think about:
If family was so important to GM Remy as it is written there, why did GM Remy never try to contact his wife and kids during his multiple visits to the Philippines in the late 90s? Why did he not meet them and trained with them? And I know he did not.
And some facts are just not true.
I have seen the 9th Dan certificate of GM Christino Vasquez, signed by G Remy Presas.
Actually, I even have a copy of this here on my computer.
So it is not correct, that Jerry, Rodel, Vic and Roland were the only ones who got 8th Dan or higher from GM Remy.
As to the best of my knowledge, GM Rene Tongson got 8th Dan from GM Remy as well..
This is only an example, that not all fact are correct here and that the Presas family is not aware of everything, that GM Remy Presas has done, for they had no communication with him for more than 25 years. (exept Demetrio who met his father 3 times in those 25 years).
I do respect Remy Jr. for giving up his academic career to teach Modern Arnis instead, but he is only the leader for Modern Arnis in MARPPIO, not for all the other Modern Arnis practitioners in the world.
Regards
Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis
I skimmed it. One part I noticed was the comment about how only a few of the Senior Masters were legit. Some of the articles seemed to have a lot of anger in them, some seemed more relaxed to me. I'll have to reread it more carefully when I have some time to devote to it.
Good to hear that someone else detected anger in some of the articles as I did.
Take care,
Brian
Yes, you are right, there is a lot of anger in them.
Not a good adviser, when you write and talk about somebody, that you use as a legitimation of being a leader.
The facts are not right.
Other examples:
GM Remy never trained Doce Pares, he did not learn with his father but grandfather etc.
You cannot change history, even if you try.
Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis
Not a good adviser, when you write and talk about somebody, that you use as a legitimation of being a leader.
The facts are not right.
Other examples:
GM Remy never trained Doce Pares, he did not learn with his father but grandfather etc.
You cannot change history, even if you try.
Dieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis
Salagubang
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I have seen and hold this certificate....
Wowsers... I've read the article in question several times and have come to the following conclusion: I believe that we need someone quite familiar with Filipino customs, culture and inheritance law to contribute to this thread.
As I read thru this article, it became quite evident to me that there are some major issues regarding family connections, inheritance, intellectual contributions, intellectual ownership, legal statuses and customary practices with regard to the Philippines versus the USA, Canada and Germany. The statements of Mrs. Rosemary Presas and Dr. Remy Presas, Jr. have to view at least partially in terms of the ways things are done in the Philippines.
No comments about who's right or wrong. I'm qualified to make such a judgment. There legal and cultural differences that have to be considered in context. You have the family on one side, the students from the Philippines, the students from the USA, Canada, Germany and other places with different connections to Professor Presas. ALL of that has to be considered and sorted out before anyone can make definitive
statements about right and wrong, ownership and succession. Good luck to all.
Morgan
- Thread Starter
- #11
It's simple.
Remy was a US Citizen. So US Law takes precedence.
- Thread Starter
- #12
Interview with Rosemary Presas
"Remy P. Presas is the eldest son of the Grandmaster and Modern Arnis is rightfully his. Other people are trying to take it and trying to say they deserve this and they deserve that. You know, these people don't have humility in martial arts.
....They only want money and fame. They only want to ride on the coattails of Grandmaster Remy."
Interesting comments. Correct me if I'm wrong but, where was Remy P. Presas from 1990 until 2001?
Ah, he was the first student, but was trained by Jerry Dela Cruz and Rodel Dagooc. Remy Sr. left the PI when Remy Jr. was in 5th grade, which would put him at about 10 or 11 at the time. How much contact did he have with his father from then until 2001, to learn first hand where his father was taking the art? Also during this time Arnis was a secondary priority as he was going to school which is a time consuming thin in itself.
Why would Modern Arnis be his? Because he's Remy Sr.'s son?
Maybe, but shouldn't the leader of a syste know the full system and it's history?
In his own interview, RemyJr. states that Datu = 6th degree. An odd statement since Datu David Hoffman is only listed as a 5th degree in Modern Arnis, and Datu Jornales has no rank in Modern Arnis that I'm aware of. Also, if 6th = Datu, wouldn't that make Dan Anderson a Datu? Now there is an interesting topic. Super Datu Dan. :rofl: So, which is it?
Now Dr. Presas makes the comment about the family not recognizing or promoting anyone until they can demonstrate they know the art. That's great. Can they demonstrate mastery of the way Modern Arnis was taught the last 10 years of GM Remy's life in the US or just what it was like in the PI prior to his leaving there? Which version are they masters of?
Now, I say and ask this not to knock Remy Jr. I've seen his videos, and he's from all accounts a decent guy looking to keep his fathers dream alive. I can't fault that, and wish him the best of luck in doing so. But. Here's that but thing. But, having read through novels on forums and talked to countless high level North American and European Arnisadors, who all have said basically the same things as far as history of the art goes, why would the families chosen head, basically be wrong on such points? Does he know, or is this the way they want it to be, and are bothered that so many others won't line up and toe the line, and pay the dues?
The genie is out of the bottle, and it won't ever go back in. Sorry.
Trust me. I have more to say here, but this is enough to chew on for the moment.
Actually, he gave it to others, via the MOTT titles and his will. I don't think he was ambiguous about whether or not he was leaving it to the children.
- Thread Starter
- #15
One version of the will which was discussed here in late 2003 stated:
Of course, this is disputed by the familys statement of "My father, GM Remy A. Presas, died intestate (without a will) according to a lawyer from Victoria, Canada, whom I quote in his letter to us, “On the joint instructions of Randy Schea, and Yvette Wong, we prepared a new will for your father to sign. Unfortunately, when we attended at his bedside he was in no condition to understand or appreciate the nature of his actions, and we were not able to witness his execution. The result is that your father has died intestate (without a will)." which was made by Demetrio Presas.
The joys of conflicting legal systems.
Of course, this is disputed by the familys statement of "My father, GM Remy A. Presas, died intestate (without a will) according to a lawyer from Victoria, Canada, whom I quote in his letter to us, “On the joint instructions of Randy Schea, and Yvette Wong, we prepared a new will for your father to sign. Unfortunately, when we attended at his bedside he was in no condition to understand or appreciate the nature of his actions, and we were not able to witness his execution. The result is that your father has died intestate (without a will)." which was made by Demetrio Presas.
The joys of conflicting legal systems.
The Last Legionary
All warfare is based on deception.<br><b>nemo malu
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
It's nice to see the family active again. I question their mastery of history however. I also think it's too late for them to try and get a trademark on the term "Modern Arnis" and enforce any kind of licensing considering that MARPPIO is alot newer an organization than any of the larger Arnis organizations such as the IMAF's, WMAA or DAV.
- Thread Starter
- #17
The family is basically saying that if you don't have rank from them, your rank is invalid, unless you have paper to prove it. This is a statement very similar to the one Jeff Delany put out shortly after taking over the IMAF before it split into 2 factions.
It also sounds like they aren't recognizing many if any non Filipino masters ranks either.
I don't see any of the organization heads who received 5th and 6th degree promotions from GM Remy rushing out to look for rank from lesser experienced and possibly lower ranked individuals, blood or not.
Does anyone know the ranks and promotion histories of the family?
The only one I could find was Carlomagno, listed as a 3rd in Modern Arnis and a 1st in Sikaran.
It also sounds like they aren't recognizing many if any non Filipino masters ranks either.
I don't see any of the organization heads who received 5th and 6th degree promotions from GM Remy rushing out to look for rank from lesser experienced and possibly lower ranked individuals, blood or not.
Does anyone know the ranks and promotion histories of the family?
The only one I could find was Carlomagno, listed as a 3rd in Modern Arnis and a 1st in Sikaran.
(Emphasis added.) That sounds reasonable...unless one knows how lackadaisical the org. was in the U.S. for a long time.
- Thread Starter
- #20
Thanks, but I didn't see any of the family listed there and their bios on the site don't list ranks.
True. Very true. It would be intersting to see if the paper some claim to have holds up to the families scrutiny, though I doubt those with questionable paper will risk it.
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