MMA vs TaiChi

paitingman

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I am admittedly not a classical kung fu guy, but I have never understood the whole MMA vs CMA debate.

MMA is a combination of various fighting methods and techniques, and by most accepted histories of classic kung fu, it's a similar story.

A lot classical arts have a historical figurehead, who studied various arts and family systems and then adapted and combined them into this new system. mixing martial arts... someone please educate me
 

Ironbear24

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I am admittedly not a classical kung fu guy, but I have never understood the whole MMA vs CMA debate.

It is a pissing contest.

MMA is a combination of various fighting methods and techniques, and by most accepted histories of classic kung fu, it's a
A lot classical arts have a historical figurehead, who studied various arts and family systems and then adapted and combined them into this new system. mixing martial arts... someone please educate me

It's a pissing contest.

Just pointing out...that first quote does not say "it did nothing beneficial."

Context, it's all about context, Hanzo is saying it is doing something good when in fact it's the opposite.
 

drop bear

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I am admittedly not a classical kung fu guy, but I have never understood the whole MMA vs CMA debate.

MMA is a combination of various fighting methods and techniques, and by most accepted histories of classic kung fu, it's a similar story.

A lot classical arts have a historical figurehead, who studied various arts and family systems and then adapted and combined them into this new system. mixing martial arts... someone please educate me

It is about what you are trying to achieve. The genisis of CMA comes from its creator. The aim is to replicate what its creator was trying to do as closely as possible.

The genisis of MMA comes from its practitioners who are trying to better the ideas of its creator.

So we have two outlooks that are morally opposed to each other.

It flares up all the time in mindset and aplication.
 

JowGaWolf

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And the story still continues.
Tai chi v MMA: The 20-second fight that left China reeling - BBC News

Here are some more ripples and the effects that it's having. Simply posting this information for anyone who is curious to see where this eventually goes and what effects may have or not have on Traditional Martial Arts as a whole. My own opinion on Traditional Martial Arts is that there are people who still practice TMAs as a fighting system. Part of the reason why this is even an issue in CMAs is because too many legit schools try to keep their training a secret. Fakes schools and fake masters are always willing to be seen by the public and be the self proclaimed standard of what martial arts is. It drives me crazy that there are some really good schools out there that still try to keep stuff a secret. I hope it changes; not because TMAs have anything to prove, but because eventually the "secret behavior" will lead to extinction of TMAs that actually train as a fighting system. From a historical perspective there is a lot of knowledge about how the body moves and the mechanics of what our bodies do. Other people see fighting, but for me I see a deeper lesson of things like how peripheral vision works, how the mind handles and detects motions, how the mind is able to recognize patterns even if we aren't consciously calling the shots. I have done more research and exploration about the human body as a martial artist than most people would expect. Much of it comes from my learning to use Martial arts to fight with. When a person fights they not only try to understand themselves, but they also try to understand the person they are fighting against. Things like how does my opponent moves, does his strikes land with confidence, is he aggressive or is he defensive. When a person hits the pads, you can tell if they are angry at you, at someone else, or if they are just frustrated in the world. You can tell if they are occupied and worried about something that they are hiding.

The more I fight the more I find myself learning more about healing, personalities, and human nature. I personally don't think I would have had this interest without the fighting. Just think of how long it took western medicine to figure out the health benefits of Tai Chi and martial arts in general. They studied Tai Chi with their degrees and doctorates only to come to the same understanding that a student in a good Tai Chi class is taught. Unfortunately if fake schools dominate and feed people bad and incorrect knowledge then the real value of martial arts is lost.
 

JowGaWolf

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I was surprised to see this statement from the article Iink I posted above
"Mr Xu has himself become an online celebrity and has been cashing in on his fame, making a fortune hosting Q&A session on microblogging site Weibo."
"
Viewers could pay him 1 RMB ($0.14; 瞿0.11) to see his answers to questions like whether he thinks Wu Jing, a famed Chinese martial arts actor, has genuine battle skills.

From this question alone, Mr Xu made more than 7,500 RMB.

He has also been charging up to 18 RMB to ask him a question. On 3 May, he answered 19 questions.

But his money-making didn't last long, as his Weibo account, with more than 350,000 fans, was suddenly mysteriously blocked.

Mr Xu told BBC Chinese he doesn't know why."
 

BuckerooBonzai

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I recently told the students at at my school not to make assumptions beyond their training focus. I also told them that training for fitness is a valid reason. Just don't assume that they can fight or use self defense if they aren't in the sparring class where we train with that focus and practice in the context of someone attacking.

This is so important to realize, esp as an instructor. I have seen so many students think that b/c they have a certain belt that they can defend themselves or "fight" and do well in a street fight when nothing could be further from the truth.

There seems to be so many levels of this "delusion" as well, sometimes starting with the instructor themselves, in martial art training centers.

I always encourage all the students to do sparring competition events outside of their own dojang b/c at least they will be in some form of a less controlled "fight" than what they might get with their buddies in class. Just not knowing the person on the mats with you ups the ante a bit.

But there are always those that do not want to spar even within their own dojang. That is totally okay AS LONG AS they realize that they cannot necessarily take their training outside and try to use it effectively.

I think this whole "MMA vs TaiChi" can be a great wake up call to all instructors to evaluate their systems and what they are teaching and to make sure that their own students have a realistic idea of their true fighting ability and if they are not a fighting school, that is fine, as long as their students realize it.
 

BuckerooBonzai

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Not really a surprise, we are fed up to the back teeth of politics so anything novel catches attention.
True enough (but who are we kidding--the news outlets are living their DREAM with all of the crazy politics--hell, they fuel the fire whenever they can to keep the raving masses going crazy about it and giving their websites more and more hits!)
 

Ironbear24

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I always encourage all the students to do sparring competition events outside of their own dojang b/c at least they will be in some form of a less controlled "fight" than what they might get with their buddies in class. Just not knowing the person on the mats with you ups the ante a bit.

Shouldn't it be the dojo's or gyms responsibility to provide such competitions?
 

BuckerooBonzai

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Shouldn't it be the dojo's or gyms responsibility to provide such competitions?
Absolutely but some organizations that I know only have "inside their own" organization tournaments where everyone pretty much knows everyone else and they do not travel to outside tournies.
 

Tez3

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True enough (but who are we kidding--the news outlets are living their DREAM with all of the crazy politics--hell, they fuel the fire whenever they can to keep the raving masses going crazy about it and giving their websites more and more hits!)

and comedians! Some really funny stuff coming out. :) As long as we can still laugh we'll survive.
 

JowGaWolf

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Absolutely but some organizations that I know only have "inside their own" organization tournaments where everyone pretty much knows everyone else and they do not travel to outside tournies.
To add. Some organizations host their own tournaments. I won karate competition medals as a kid in sparring. It was an awesome feeling to win. But all of these events were done in the same school and only the students from that school participated. My medals lost meaning when I almost had my but kicked in a school fight.
 
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Tez3

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I didn't think about that. Good observation.

Cheers!, We have the electioneering going on for the General Election in June, most of the newspapers have their favourite political stance they try to sell us on, the television companies are more or less neutral so are trying to prove it by covering everything and everyone so we have endless politics which is turning people off. The best way to get people back to reading the papers or watching the news programmes is novelty and what goes down especially well here is 'funny foreigners!' which this qualifies as. CMA isn't hugely well know in the UK, MMA isn't really but we have UK fighters so it's a bit more understood in that they know we bash people lol. As the election gets nearer we will get more and more 'non stories' designed to pacify us.
 
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Hanzou

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I said it did nothing beneficial. Sanda is a collection of styles brought together that includes striking and grappling. Much like japanese Kudo.

Yeah, but its not the same sport as MMA. Sanda has a different rule-set, such as a distinct lack of ground grappling. Cung-Le, a Sanda champ, had to take a crash course in Bjj in order to switch the UFC for example.

As for the benefits, as Jow-Ga stated, this will hopefully push more traditional styles to step up and prove the fighting prowess of their system.
 
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Hanzou

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I am admittedly not a classical kung fu guy, but I have never understood the whole MMA vs CMA debate.

MMA is a combination of various fighting methods and techniques, and by most accepted histories of classic kung fu, it's a similar story.

A lot classical arts have a historical figurehead, who studied various arts and family systems and then adapted and combined them into this new system. mixing martial arts... someone please educate me

As Drop Bear stated, the difference is that modern martial arts are constantly looking to improve their methods, while traditional arts strive to stay true to their founder's original goals (with some disciples going so far as to believe that their founder's skills were perfect).

Hence why Aikido is often considered a TMA and Bjj is considered a MMA, despite Bjj being the older system.
 

JowGaWolf

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while traditional arts strive to stay true to their founder's original goals (with some disciples going so far as to believe that their founder's skills were perfect).
I don't like this as well. There's value in keeping record of the founders original goals as well as the techniques, but trying to make it hold true as "this is how it should always be done," guarantees that it won't be able to adapt against a style for which the techniques were never originally designed to go against. Ironically the reason why there are so many types of TMA is specifically for the reason that they were adapting and evolving the systems. TMAs weren't born perfect, they were developed. So it just makes no sense to really force a TMA system not to adapt, especially for the sake of just Tradition. It's possible to do both.

Imagine if this remained traditional.
 

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