MMA fighter kills intruder

Mephisto

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In the link below huffington post covers a story about MMA fighter Joseph Torres who successfully defended his home from four intruders, two armed with knives. Apparently he killed one intruder (article doesn't mention how) and put another in the hospital with facial injuries. He will not be charged for the death that resulted in his home defense.

So there you have it, MMA works against multiple armed attackers. We can lay that argument to rest next time someone criticizes MMA as "just a sport".

Edit: forgot to add the link
Joseph Torrez MMA Fighter Fends Off 4 Attackers Killing 1 During Home Invasion Police
 
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Drose427

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The assailants where the ones who were stabbed......it sounds alot more like torres Stabbed them to even the odds, not that they came at him with weapons but without the evidence of who touched what, its all heresay as to who brought what. Just that a weapon was involved and someone died.

It also says torres was successful in making 2 assailants run away, probably after seeing torres fight back initally, considering those 2 men arent being charged or tried with any from of assault, they probably never made a move accordding to torres and the other witnesses.

So from the info article:

He was attacked by two assailants, a knife was most likely used by Torres in the melee considering the attacker was stabbed to death,

only indication of any other weapons or armed assailants was Torres and his Lawyers statement(which should always be questioned and analyzed through the actual evidence),

the other 2 guys fled the scene without attacking,

So no it Wasnt 4 v 1

It was 2 v 1, with at least one weapon of questionable possession involved, as reports seem to vary there(some articles have torres saying crude shank and knife to his lawyers and others reports mention only the knife as the weapon being used), and since Torres is apparently no longer cooperating with Law Enforcement, we may never know. I do know, that the evidence wont lie and Torres wouldnt be the first person to tweak events to help his case.

Not to mention it was in a mobile home, where once inside if would have been a huge advantage for Torres as it would have made it difficult for him to be surrounded. Have you ever seen a mobile home with ANY amount of furnishings where 4 guys can surround one? They would have had to come at him in a funnel like the battle of thermopylae. Which was still most likely the 2 actual assailants, if they attacked him at once.

Sounds like a moot point, but that advantahe of not being able to be surrounded could quite literally be the thing that saved his life.


Im not saying this to join in on the "MMA for SD or not" debate, you guys can all have fun with that.

But if youre gonna use an article to make a point, get everything sorted out and understand the flaws. This wasnt as cut and dry as youre making it sound here
 

Drose427

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Absolutely, itll show some fun articles hopefully among heated debates.

Torrez was lucky, not all Fighters are.

Maiquel falco and Mena were in pretty bad condition after a similar incident after all. Falco was a bellator (and UFC i believe) level fighter and he was in pretty bad shape after

Itll be interesting to see where this thread goes,
 

Steve

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IMO, the details are more interesting than helpful. What is salient to this discussion is that the guy is a trained MMAist who successfully used his "sport" skills in a real life, self defense situation. Posting stories about other situations is really not very relevant.

Here's my take on what this means and what this does not mean.

What it means:
  1. MMA teaches skills that can be applied in a real life altercation.
  2. MMA skills alone are not always enough. Torres has the mindfulness to arm himself at some point.
  3. MMA skills PLUS a knife seems to be pretty effective.
  4. "Multiple assailants" does not always mean that they will all fight together like a well trained, spec ops unit. Sometimes, bad guys run away.
  5. Context matters. Where you are threatened isn't always within your control, but it can make a huge difference.

What it does not mean:
  1. MMA works every time.
  2. Any other style works better (or worse.)

Ultimately, no one will change their mind here. Some will not want to believe that MMA plus common sense is a pretty solid foundation for self defense. Some will believe that MMA is the only foundation that matters.
 

Danny T

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In the link below huffington post covers a story about MMA fighter Joseph Torres who successfully defended his home from four intruders, two armed with knives. Apparently he killed one intruder (article doesn't mention how) and put another in the hospital with facial injuries. He will not be charged for the death that resulted in his home defense.

So there you have it, MMA works against multiple armed attackers. We can lay that argument to rest next time someone criticizes MMA as "just a sport".

Edit: forgot to add the link
Joseph Torrez MMA Fighter Fends Off 4 Attackers Killing 1 During Home Invasion Police

Doesn't say anything about his training other than being an MMA fighter. Also doesn't say anything about the intruders having weapons only that one died of stab wounds and that another was stabbed in the face. What MMA program instructs bladed weapon defensive technology?

Have a friend of mine who doesn't train any martial arts, is a structural engineer. Was attacked in his home a couple of months ago by an intruder who he walk in on. Beat the intruder with his hands and held him until the police came. Does that make Structural Engineering more than the analysis and design of structures?
 

Tez3

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Doesn't say anything about his training other than being an MMA fighter. Also doesn't say anything about the intruders having weapons only that one died of stab wounds and that another was stabbed in the face. What MMA program instructs bladed weapon defensive technology?

Have a friend of mine who doesn't train any martial arts, is a structural engineer. Was attacked in his home a couple of months ago by an intruder who he walk in on. Beat the intruder with his hands and held him until the police came. Does that make Structural Engineering more than the analysis and design of structures?


I think the need and urge to defend one's loved ones and home transcends any training in any fighting arts.
 

Steve

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Just want to point out, this happened in january of 2014, over a year ago. Torrez wasn't charged. According to a scan of numerous articles that are available on this, one of the guys entered Torrez's home "armed." What that means, I don't know.
 
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Mephisto

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IMO, the details are more interesting than helpful. What is salient to this discussion is that the guy is a trained MMAist who successfully used his "sport" skills in a real life, self defense situation. Posting stories about other situations is really not very relevant.

Here's my take on what this means and what this does not mean.

What it means:
  1. MMA teaches skills that can be applied in a real life altercation.
  2. MMA skills alone are not always enough. Torres has the mindfulness to arm himself at some point.
  3. MMA skills PLUS a knife seems to be pretty effective.
  4. "Multiple assailants" does not always mean that they will all fight together like a well trained, spec ops unit. Sometimes, bad guys run away.
  5. Context matters. Where you are threatened isn't always within your control, but it can make a huge difference.

What it does not mean:
  1. MMA works every time.
  2. Any other style works better (or worse.)

Ultimately, no one will change their mind here. Some will not want to believe that MMA plus common sense is a pretty solid foundation for self defense. Some will believe that MMA is the only foundation that matters.
Steve gets my point in posting the article. this is just one article we can reference where an MMA guy successfully defended himself against multiple attackers. I don't think it guarantees anything or changes much. It's just a documented incident of someone successfully using MMA outside the cage.

Doesn't say anything about his training other than being an MMA fighter. Also doesn't say anything about the intruders having weapons only that one died of stab wounds and that another was stabbed in the face. What MMA program instructs bladed weapon defensive technology?

Have a friend of mine who doesn't train any martial arts, is a structural engineer. Was attacked in his home a couple of months ago by an intruder who he walk in on. Beat the intruder with his hands and held him until the police came. Does that make Structural Engineering more than the analysis and design of structures?

This article might not mention the shank, I read it from several sources and linked one. Either way it doesn't matter. Somehow an MMA fighter who trains in a sport with rules was able to operate outside that rulset in a self defense encounter, he obtained a weapon and used it to save his life. Some here imply an MMA fighter will handle a self defense situation just as a competitive match, this case shows otherwise.

There are plenty of people worldwide who fight off attackers, your engineer friend being one. Those incidents have no relevance here. Common sense would dictate that engineering does not help ones ability to defend his or her life. If the guy in the story trained wing chun you guys would be quick to elevate the story but it's MMA and doesn't fit your belief system so you're quick to distract from what the article shows us.
 

Tez3

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If the guy in the story trained wing chun you guys would be quick to elevate the story but it's MMA and doesn't fit your belief system so you're quick to distract from what the article shows us.

I train MMA and I've always believed, in fact more than that, I know that we can fight without the rules when we need to.
I think you have the wrong end of the stick here. No martial art is guaranteed to help you fight off four attackers, not one. What this guy did was defend his home and his loved ones (presuming they were there at the time) so the story is "man defends his home etc' not necessarily an MMA fighter, or a WC or karateka. As I said the instinct, which is very strong in many people to defend their home and loved ones, kicks in and anyone will do their best to fight attackers off. That this man was martial arts trained helped him considerably no doubt but I'm betting too his will and his instincts helped as much. I would forget about style bashing and promoting and see this guy for the martial artist he is.
 

Steve

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I train MMA and I've always believed, in fact more than that, I know that we can fight without the rules when we need to.
I think you have the wrong end of the stick here. No martial art is guaranteed to help you fight off four attackers, not one. What this guy did was defend his home and his loved ones (presuming they were there at the time) so the story is "man defends his home etc' not necessarily an MMA fighter, or a WC or karateka. As I said the instinct, which is very strong in many people to defend their home and loved ones, kicks in and anyone will do their best to fight attackers off. That this man was martial arts trained helped him considerably no doubt but I'm betting too his will and his instincts helped as much. I would forget about style bashing and promoting and see this guy for the martial artist he is.
Totally agree, and we should all remember this the next time someone posts a link about how krav maga or any other style is better suited than MMA for self defense.

As a general statement that MMA is awesome for self defense, I think we're on shaky ground. But if this is posted as a response to the general belief of some that MMA is not well suited for self defense training because it is a sport, I think the point is a good one.

And if we can all agree to share Tez's sentiment above the next time someone posts a link to an article where someone uses kung fu, karate or anything else, as support for their training, I'm on board.
 
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Mephisto

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I think you have the wrong end of the stick here. No martial art is guaranteed to help you fight off four attackers, not one...
Who said any martial art is guaranteed to help you fight off four attackers? I'd say you're F-ed in most scenarios. Most people would agree but some people think 5 man flow drills are better preparation than one guy trying his hardest to beat you down. Imo if you can handle one trained fully resisting opponent you're better prepared to handle four untrained thugs. If youre not used to the aggression of one person four or more will be a very long shot.
 

MJS

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In the link below huffington post covers a story about MMA fighter Joseph Torres who successfully defended his home from four intruders, two armed with knives. Apparently he killed one intruder (article doesn't mention how) and put another in the hospital with facial injuries. He will not be charged for the death that resulted in his home defense.

So there you have it, MMA works against multiple armed attackers. We can lay that argument to rest next time someone criticizes MMA as "just a sport".

Edit: forgot to add the link
Joseph Torrez MMA Fighter Fends Off 4 Attackers Killing 1 During Home Invasion Police

Anything has the potential to work, just like anything has the potential to fail. Despite popular belief, there is no magic art out there. I'm one of the first people to say that many useful things can be gained from MMA training. Of course, keep in mind, the average MMA gym, that is teaching the sport aspect, most likely focuses on just that...the sport. This isn't to say that the person in question didn't just get lucky or had prior MA training, like many MMA fighters do.
 

Tez3

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Who said any martial art is guaranteed to help you fight off four attackers?

No one said it, I was just making a point. Obviously it went over some heads though.
 

Steve

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No one said it, I was just making a point. Obviously it went over some heads though.
I would doubt it went over anyone's head. What's not clear is whether it's a general statement, or a jab at someone. You have to admit, you like to jab at people.
 

elder999

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the other 2 guys fled the scene without attacking,

So no it Wasnt 4 v 1

It was 2 v 1,

No secret: if someone breaks into my home, I will shoot them.


Don't get me wrong-I get a threatening phone call promising violence against my family, and I'm calling the police.

And waiting for them locked and loaded.

In this case, I would probably shoot all four of them.

If I shot two, and the other two ran away, well, it was still four against one.

Years ago, I was robbed on the subway, and one of the robbers tried to murder me. It didn't work out that way-obviously-and the other two ran away.
I'd rather resent the idea that because two of them ran away, it wasn't 3 against 1, just as I'd resent the idea that because my sharp thing went into the other guy, instead of vice versa, it wasn't so "cut and dry," when, just like Torres, I didn't spend a single day in jail.....in New York, no less......
 

Tony Dismukes

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It also says torres was successful in making 2 assailants run away, probably after seeing torres fight back initally, considering those 2 men arent being charged or tried with any from of assault, they probably never made a move accordding to torres and the other witnesses.

So from the info article:

He was attacked by two assailants, a knife was most likely used by Torres in the melee considering the attacker was stabbed to death,

only indication of any other weapons or armed assailants was Torres and his Lawyers statement(which should always be questioned and analyzed through the actual evidence),

the other 2 guys fled the scene without attacking,

So no it Wasnt 4 v 1

It was 2 v 1,
This is actually very common in multiple-assailant scenarios. It takes practice and discipline for four individuals to operate as a team and attack simultaneously. More often, one or two assailants will engage the target and the rest will wait until the victim is tied up or distracted so they can take a free shot. Sometimes they won't join in until the victim is down on the ground and they can join in the kicking risk-free. If the bad guys who engage first go down fast and hard, their buddies may very well opt to retreat. (Especially if the defender doesn't expose himself to a rear attack in the process.) It doesn't mean those individuals who decided to run away weren't part of the initial threat.
 

drop bear

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Who said any martial art is guaranteed to help you fight off four attackers? I'd say you're F-ed in most scenarios. Most people would agree but some people think 5 man flow drills are better preparation than one guy trying his hardest to beat you down. Imo if you can handle one trained fully resisting opponent you're better prepared to handle four untrained thugs. If youre not used to the aggression of one person four or more will be a very long shot.

That would be easy to test. You wouldn't have to wait untill someone invaded your home. Just find five guys willing to jump on you.

Which I have done by the way.
 

jezr74

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I just think it's great to hear of Martial Artists able to use their skills successfully to defend their family or home. Should just be a testament to people who put in the hard yards to tip the favor in their direction.
 
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