MCM Single Hand Chi Sao. No Bong

Kung Fu Wang

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If you throw out your bong sau out like a block, this may be true. Our philosophy is different. Bong sau is like a bent spring. You don't throw out a bong sau defensively. You throw out a strike. If the striking arm meets stronger opposing force, it is bent like a spring, absorbing and deflecting.

So, if your opponent forces your arm into bong with one hand, and grabs for your elbow with the other, he's taking the bait. That is what you want him to do ....chase your elbow and put his two hands on your one so you can hit him straight away with the other.

Is it possible for the grappler to win? Sure. If he's better. Life's funny that way! :)
I do agree that everything can be a bait. In Chinese wrestling, it's very common that you expose your elbow joint to your opponent on purpose. When your opponent tries to reach to your elbow, you use arm guide to control his arm instead.

- I raise and expose my right elbow joint to you.
- Your left hand tries to reach to my right elbow.
- My right arm uses circular motion to control/guide your left elbow.

This is why the MA is just a big cheating game. :)
 
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futsaowingchun

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It's all X, and pronounced "biu ji sao", and you don't need to capitalize it.

It predates Wing Chun by quite a long time, mostly southern Shaolin Crane technique, because of its Wu Xing element (muk, wood) and the squeezing involved. That's why a demo showing just one is half the picture, and that's being generous.

Do a demo with both hands, and have the other guy really resist you. That would be interesting.
there is a difference one is defensive while the other one is a strike..
 
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futsaowingchun

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Yes, and he's smaller, weaker, and apparently your student. And he's also doing exactly what you tell him to do - that is positioning himself exactly as you say.

Isn't it funny how we can do such great demos on our students and friends. Have you noticed that they become even more manageable after they get a little more training under their belt.

It's almost like we are training them to let us dominate them! Strange how that works. ;)
ive done this with other people ive only known for a few hour the results are the same ..
 

Oily Dragon

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Really good video from my friend on the topic, Bik Kiu bridge (crowding) and how it relates to bong sao.

 

geezer

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OK here's another one of these kind of demos -a better one IMO- by GM Keith Kernspecht of the EWTO. My si-dai in Texas trained personally with him for some time and thinks he's the greatest WT/WC/VT master in the world ...even better than our own sifu, Leung Ting.

Me? I'm not into hero worship. The guy is better than I'll ever be and obviously he knows how to use good structure to exploit weaknesses in his opponent's structure. Other than that ....I always find this demos fun ...but a little like a parlor trick.

FWIW, Kernspecht now in his late 70s was a power lifter in his youth and was very massive and strong until recent years.

 

Kung Fu Wang

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he knows how to use good structure to exploit weaknesses in his opponent's structure.

I like this guy in the video. He has We-De (martial moral). In Chinese wrestling, after you have thrown your opponent down 3 times, you let your opponent to throw you down once. This way your opponent's feeling will not be hurt. This guy in the video does know about that.

I also don't like the soft style sticky hand. When our arms are contacted, either you run me over, or I run you over. There should be nothing in between.

The way that I look at this is, the more that I "play" with my opponent's arms (such as the WC sticky hand, or the Taiji push hand), the less run down ability that I will develop.

I like the kind of training that the moment that I touch my arm on your arm, the moment that I try to run you down. It doesn't matter whether I succeed of fail. The training will enhance my successful rate.
 
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geezer

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I like this guy in the video. He has We-De (martial moral). In Chinese wrestling, after you have thrown your opponent down 3 times, you let your opponent to throw you down once. This way your opponent's feeling will not be hurt. This guy in the video does know about that.

I also don't like the soft style sticky hand. When our arms are contacted, either you run me over, or I run you over. There should be nothing in between.

The way that I look at this is, the more that I "play" with my opponent's arms (such as the WC sticky hand, or the Taiji push hand), the less run down ability that I will develop.

I like the kind of training that the moment that I touch my arm on your arm, the moment that I try to run you down. It doesn't matter whether I succeed of fail. The training will enhance my successful rate.
Good Comments. But you know, I mistakenly posted the video clip above on this thread. It was meant for the other thread by Futsao titled:

Having Control of Your Body Using Relaxed and Loose Joints.​


It is a response to his video showing him unbalancing his student in a similar type of demo. So I'm going to re-post it over there. Please respond on that thread! Thanks.

BTW This is what happens when I try to post from my phone instead of my desktop. Sorry! :(
 
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futsaowingchun

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Yes, and he's smaller, weaker, and apparently your student. And he's also doing exactly what you tell him to do - that is positioning himself exactly as you say.

Isn't it funny how we can do such great demos on our students and friends. Have you noticed that they become even more manageable after they get a little more training under their belt.

It's almost like we are training them to let us dominate them! Strange how that works. ;)
does not matter the size,,ive done this with much bigger persons..people over 300lbs
 

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