TallAdam85
3rd Black Belt
Now we all do lots of body training at are schools to make us the best but how many also work the mind to make the things we know work?
Martial Arts Mental training
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TallAdam85
3rd Black Belt
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my teacher wants us to have strong minds and strong bodys some times we have a hard work out class or others where he tells us stores and stuff to inlighten us
T
twinkletoes
Guest
There are a couple of parts to mental Martial Arts training.
The first is mental attributes you need to develop as a practitioner. These include focus, concentration, relaxation, awareness, creativity, level-headedness, pain tolerance, and more.
You will also find that attributes like self-confidence, self-esteem, stress relief, and more are mental benefits of training.
The second is martial "ethics" that instructors will try to instill. There are certain virtues that are thought to be necessary for martial arts practitioners. These include things like appropriateness, self-control, self-discipline, benevolence, generosity, and the like. I have a LONG list of these written down somewhere.
Lastly, there are mental traits an instructor should have. (There are both kinds of these too). These include experience, motivational skill, ability to monitor a class, ability to give a student what s/he needs, fairness, temperance, and so on.
~TT
The first is mental attributes you need to develop as a practitioner. These include focus, concentration, relaxation, awareness, creativity, level-headedness, pain tolerance, and more.
You will also find that attributes like self-confidence, self-esteem, stress relief, and more are mental benefits of training.
The second is martial "ethics" that instructors will try to instill. There are certain virtues that are thought to be necessary for martial arts practitioners. These include things like appropriateness, self-control, self-discipline, benevolence, generosity, and the like. I have a LONG list of these written down somewhere.
Lastly, there are mental traits an instructor should have. (There are both kinds of these too). These include experience, motivational skill, ability to monitor a class, ability to give a student what s/he needs, fairness, temperance, and so on.
~TT
Any particular techniques that i would have trouble with, i would go through it slow motion in my mind, when i could see it (mentally) step by step, i could do it.
at times when i had an injury and couldn't train or if i were on a long plane / car ride, i would also use these times to go over katas / techniques in my mind.
at times when i had an injury and couldn't train or if i were on a long plane / car ride, i would also use these times to go over katas / techniques in my mind.
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We practice Psychological and Emotional Intimidation of our opponents as well as Psycological and Emotional Development of ourselves, and dealing with Non-physical confrontations in our daily lives.
We are also encouraged to read, watch videos, and THINK about the techniques and their applications...
We are also encouraged to read, watch videos, and THINK about the techniques and their applications...
Twinkletoes, excellent post.
As an aikido practitioner I have heard over and over that it is an art of thinking. The mental aspects of the art are worked every time you run flowing locks or simply run a drill in which the same attack is responded to by as many different techniques as you can think of. Philosophy is liberally sprinkled into each class and at the end of each session, as we sit seiza, McCraw Sensei will relay a story of one sort or another or attempt to empart to us how aikido theory can be carried over into our every day dealings with people.
To take one attack and use 2, 3, 4 or more techniques to control uke from one end of the dojo to the other truly makes you use your mind to make the things you know work.
As an aikido practitioner I have heard over and over that it is an art of thinking. The mental aspects of the art are worked every time you run flowing locks or simply run a drill in which the same attack is responded to by as many different techniques as you can think of. Philosophy is liberally sprinkled into each class and at the end of each session, as we sit seiza, McCraw Sensei will relay a story of one sort or another or attempt to empart to us how aikido theory can be carried over into our every day dealings with people.
To take one attack and use 2, 3, 4 or more techniques to control uke from one end of the dojo to the other truly makes you use your mind to make the things you know work.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Uh...well, I agree that students need to be told a few things about what martial arts are for.
And I certainly agree that meditation, breathing practices, etc. are essential parts of martial arts.
But my model is the Music Master in Hesse's, "Glass Bead Game," who says, "Spiritual development? I say nothing about spiritual development to my students. But I am very careful to make sure that they count out their measures correctly."
In other words, I don't believe in mental training in the arts, not if by that you mean isolated from the physical. I believe that the way to the mental and the emotional is through making students, and ourselves, "count out our measures correctly."
Beyond the way that some of the mental stuff I've read--not here, but elsewhere--strikes me as an excuse to avoid practice and contact, there's the way that this mental ubermensch jazz reminds me of John W. Campbell when he edited, "Amazing," and "Analog--" every month a new mental path to perfection (see vanVogt, "World of Null-A;" Robert A. Heinlein, "Assignment in Tomorrow"), the best known of which is Scientology, arguably the single funniest "religion," ever dreamed up by a third-rate, racist SF writer.
Later, we're stuck with jazz like NLP--"neuro-linguistic programming..."
I say it's spinach, and I say the hell with it. Practice is king.
And I certainly agree that meditation, breathing practices, etc. are essential parts of martial arts.
But my model is the Music Master in Hesse's, "Glass Bead Game," who says, "Spiritual development? I say nothing about spiritual development to my students. But I am very careful to make sure that they count out their measures correctly."
In other words, I don't believe in mental training in the arts, not if by that you mean isolated from the physical. I believe that the way to the mental and the emotional is through making students, and ourselves, "count out our measures correctly."
Beyond the way that some of the mental stuff I've read--not here, but elsewhere--strikes me as an excuse to avoid practice and contact, there's the way that this mental ubermensch jazz reminds me of John W. Campbell when he edited, "Amazing," and "Analog--" every month a new mental path to perfection (see vanVogt, "World of Null-A;" Robert A. Heinlein, "Assignment in Tomorrow"), the best known of which is Scientology, arguably the single funniest "religion," ever dreamed up by a third-rate, racist SF writer.
Later, we're stuck with jazz like NLP--"neuro-linguistic programming..."
I say it's spinach, and I say the hell with it. Practice is king.
The train of thought that I got from the original post was not about the spiritual side of the mentality but the thought processes behind the techniques. I could very well have misconstrued the question though.
As to the spiritual side of the mentality of the art I honestly believe that an instructor has a resposibility to at least attempt to instill certain "fail safes" if you will against arbitrary use of what can be very damaging or even fatal techniques. Teaching martial arts with out at least the admonition for constraint is like teaching some one to use an M-16 and not informing them that MOST folks would consider it bad form to indesciminantly mow down crowds of people with the new "art" they've just learned. Is it the instructors resposibility to teach morals, ethics and so on? No, but it should be a responsibility to put for a suggested set of morals and ethics. It's a fine line I know and is probably going to confuse those that read this post as much as I have confused myself trying to get it from my head to the key board. Maybe there is a wordsmith among us who can clarify my own thoughts for me.
R
rmcrobertson
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OK, I'll put it this way. I don't believe in blathering at students about morality, etc., any more than I believe in general blathering (including those holier-than-thou Christian bumper stickers I see all the time) about moral principles.
In the first place, very, very few martial arts teachers--to say nothing of practictioners--are in any position to ride students about morality, spitirual discipline, etc. They just don't have the knowledge, or the experience. When we blather about morality, we put ourselves in the position of being the One Who Knows--and mostly, that's just not true.
I also think, as I wrote, that every discipline has its own route to moral/philosophical/"spiritual" enlightenment. But that this is always enacted through some action...in martial arts, it's just as spiritual to teach a correct block as anything else. (By the way, this remains another argument for NOT removing the forms, sets, and chunks of technique from a system like kenpo. Guess what it is that they help teach?) And without the physical discipline, it's just chin music anyway.
Then there's the hardest thing--setting a good example. Teaching without pretense, without pomposity, without power-seeking, etc. etc, for instance. And doing it for a long, long time.
To echo something I wrote on another string--whenever I hear somebody lecturing about their moral character, I check to see if my wallet's still in my pocket. And I check to see if they're sneaking up behind me.
I think it's great that folks worry about this stuff. But to go back to the original focus of the string--I also think that any and all claims in martial arts about teaching mental discipline as separated from physical movement are bunkum. At best.
I didn't even know that you COULD do martial arts seriously without training the mind.
In the first place, very, very few martial arts teachers--to say nothing of practictioners--are in any position to ride students about morality, spitirual discipline, etc. They just don't have the knowledge, or the experience. When we blather about morality, we put ourselves in the position of being the One Who Knows--and mostly, that's just not true.
I also think, as I wrote, that every discipline has its own route to moral/philosophical/"spiritual" enlightenment. But that this is always enacted through some action...in martial arts, it's just as spiritual to teach a correct block as anything else. (By the way, this remains another argument for NOT removing the forms, sets, and chunks of technique from a system like kenpo. Guess what it is that they help teach?) And without the physical discipline, it's just chin music anyway.
Then there's the hardest thing--setting a good example. Teaching without pretense, without pomposity, without power-seeking, etc. etc, for instance. And doing it for a long, long time.
To echo something I wrote on another string--whenever I hear somebody lecturing about their moral character, I check to see if my wallet's still in my pocket. And I check to see if they're sneaking up behind me.
I think it's great that folks worry about this stuff. But to go back to the original focus of the string--I also think that any and all claims in martial arts about teaching mental discipline as separated from physical movement are bunkum. At best.
I didn't even know that you COULD do martial arts seriously without training the mind.
Brief story to share:
Last month I had a belt test to study. That week, everything possible went totally chaotic at work and home (4 kids) that prevented me from having adequate physical time to practice.
The night before the test, I slept and thought over every technique and forms carefully step by step repeatedly, adjusting stance, speed, and power (including breathing), as if I was watching myself. I could mentally "see" errors and I changed/adjusted and went thrugh again step by step. Its almost as if I was actually physically practicing--the imagery was that intense.
When it was time to take the belt test, I felt relaxed and knew clearly what moves and stances I needed to do and how to do it. I just put it into motion. Funny, it was the best belt test I ever performed.
Physical preparation is needed, but mental preparation is necessary to hard-wire your brain to tell your body what needs to be done and to focus.
Some say it is Chi when you call into everything you have mentally, spiritually, and physically with the intensity needed to do certain things. Its the "whole" approach.
- Ceicei
Last month I had a belt test to study. That week, everything possible went totally chaotic at work and home (4 kids) that prevented me from having adequate physical time to practice.
The night before the test, I slept and thought over every technique and forms carefully step by step repeatedly, adjusting stance, speed, and power (including breathing), as if I was watching myself. I could mentally "see" errors and I changed/adjusted and went thrugh again step by step. Its almost as if I was actually physically practicing--the imagery was that intense.
When it was time to take the belt test, I felt relaxed and knew clearly what moves and stances I needed to do and how to do it. I just put it into motion. Funny, it was the best belt test I ever performed.
Physical preparation is needed, but mental preparation is necessary to hard-wire your brain to tell your body what needs to be done and to focus.
Some say it is Chi when you call into everything you have mentally, spiritually, and physically with the intensity needed to do certain things. Its the "whole" approach.
- Ceicei
T
twinkletoes
Guest
I too feel that casuistry or moralizing is not a part of martial arts training.
Certain policies must be enforced within the studio. However, the dojo is not a pulpit, and should not be confused for one.
~TT
Certain policies must be enforced within the studio. However, the dojo is not a pulpit, and should not be confused for one.
~TT
And there is the snag. I know that my code of ethics is different from yours in some ways and my own little code of honor is different from that of others. Even in the truly rare event that an instructor is found that can put forth his "spiritual code" and live by it for a very long time it may be completely contrary to the beliefs of those he is teaching. It's easy to get knocked off of a pedestal but hard as hell to get back on it. You have hit the fine line I talked about in my previous thread better than I could explain it myself. A general set of somewhat universal ethical standards for the use of an art should be put forth but those standards are in relation to the use of the physical techniques. Unless you yourself are a saint pounding morality as hard as you pound technique is a very dangerous game. There is a difference between morals and ethics.
T
twinkletoes
Guest
theletch1,
I agree with what you're saying: it would be wreckless to just go around teaching students ways to harm people without discussing appropriate use of what they are learning. We can't have them going out and starting brawls every night to test what they've learned.
On the other hand, it can be hard to draw a line. Many people do cross over and start telling the students how to live their lives.
When dealing with kids, I think a little of this is ok (JUST a little). The problem is, it's very hard to define what kinds of things they should learn, and how, and from whom.
I studied with one instructor whose instruction, views on martial arts, views on training, opinions on spirituality, and views on life were all HEAVILY intermingled. I felt like going to class was going to church, and not one I was a member of. It was awkward and alienating.
Maybe we should split it off as a new thread, but I'm curious what ethics people think should be attached to martial arts. Maybe we can discuss that there.
~TT
PS - Just a nit-picky word note: ethics and morals mean the same thing. Even in [analytic] philosophy of ethics, they are considered interchangeable. I understand the distinction you are making, but maybe there's a better way to word it.
I agree with what you're saying: it would be wreckless to just go around teaching students ways to harm people without discussing appropriate use of what they are learning. We can't have them going out and starting brawls every night to test what they've learned.
On the other hand, it can be hard to draw a line. Many people do cross over and start telling the students how to live their lives.
When dealing with kids, I think a little of this is ok (JUST a little). The problem is, it's very hard to define what kinds of things they should learn, and how, and from whom.
I studied with one instructor whose instruction, views on martial arts, views on training, opinions on spirituality, and views on life were all HEAVILY intermingled. I felt like going to class was going to church, and not one I was a member of. It was awkward and alienating.
Maybe we should split it off as a new thread, but I'm curious what ethics people think should be attached to martial arts. Maybe we can discuss that there.
~TT
PS - Just a nit-picky word note: ethics and morals mean the same thing. Even in [analytic] philosophy of ethics, they are considered interchangeable. I understand the distinction you are making, but maybe there's a better way to word it.
T
twinkletoes
Guest
And that's only the smallest reason we shouldn't be trying to put ourselves up there in the first place.
Why should we belong up there? Is your aerobics instructor or your dental hygenist up on some pedestal? How about your accountant? It's kind of ridiculous that the Martial Arts instructor should get some kind of weird, quasi-religious role.
My feet are on the ground, and my place is among my students, not apart from (or above) them.
~TT
That's the second time I've heard that since that post. My wife is a mental health major and see corrected me quickly. I'm glad that you are able to understand the distinction that I am trying to make, though the words to clear it up escape me at the moment.
I think instructors being on a pedastal was discussed in the eastern mysticism thread that was here a little while ago. Too many old hong kong movies + too many gullible people/people desperate to find direction any way they can is part of what I blame for the instructor on the pedastal. Then you have the instructors whose egos demand that they be put on a pedastal. I've trained with both the egomaniac and the man who is very down to earth. I get so much more out of the latter. I feel that he is more approachable with questions.
T
twinkletoes
Guest
I agree wholeheartedly. I much prefer the approachable instructor to the "god-like" one. I've even caught myself, working with high level instructors mistaking the former for the latter, and thinking they weren't approachable. Boy, that was my loss. I missed some chances to interact personally with some top notch people.
My own goal is to be completely down-to-earth, right there in the trenches along with my students, and to have them understand that.
~TT
My own goal is to be completely down-to-earth, right there in the trenches along with my students, and to have them understand that.
~TT
