Looking for a katana that will be easy to use for kata

dvcochran

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The OP did say he's not in any way DIY inclined...

Using a file takes a certain amount of finesse (if you disagree with that then use only a hand drill, a hacksaw and a file to make a 1" square hole in 3/8" plate and a corresponding 1" slug to fit it in any orientation, you have a tolerance of +0.0005"/-0 on the hole and +0/-0.0005" on the slug - do that and then tell me it's an easy tool that anyone can use)

It we are getting technical, the only practical way to make a square hole with those tolerances in a steel plate is with a punch and die in a press. Yea, it could be done by hand but why? And what does any of that have to do with a Katana?
I have successfully controlled worn out J type Bridgeport milling machines to sharpens four edge diamond bit inserts with a tolerance 4 places below the decimal. It can be done repeatably but it is tough.

I wouldn't use a bastard either, it'll leave a 'catchy' finish - I'd be going for at least a 2nd cut if not finer. You're not after mass stock removal here, just minor reprofiling.

True, there are various grades of flat bastard files. It you are in a hurry, use a coarser file first, then go to a finer grade cut and lighten your pressure using long strokes to prevent whoops. To your reference above, when using a file, the pressure you apply directly affects how much material is removed and therefore the finish. I have dulled long blades before in this manner. It really isn't that hard. You just have to have some patience.]/QUOTE]


I'd disagree with that too - draw filing (file at 90簞 to direction of cut) would produce a much finer and more consistent finish.

I agree drawing at 90簞 at the finish would be best.

But that's by the by - if you're cack handed with a file on a slim blade it'll end up wavy at best, or saw tooth at worst.
I am still trying to figure out the inline responses. If this is all wrong, please let me know how to correct. Thanks
 

Gerry Seymour

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I am still trying to figure out the inline responses. If this is all wrong, please let me know how to correct. Thanks
Let me try again. In the lines below, I've inserted a code tag so you can see what the code looks like, then used that code to insert the lines, so you can see the result.

Code:
[quote]This is where the first quoted line would be.[/quote]
This is where your reply goes.

[quote]Each quote goes between the two quote tags, which are inside brackets. The /quote is the close, which ends a quote.[/quote]
I've pasted this same sequence below, so you can see both the code and the result.

This is where the first quoted line would be.
This is where your reply goes.

Each quote goes between the two quote tags, which are inside brackets. The /quote is the close, which ends a quote.
I've pasted this same sequence below, so you can see both the code and the result.
 

pdg

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I am still trying to figure out the inline responses. If this is all wrong, please let me know how to correct. Thanks

Yeah, it's wrong :p

Have a look at what @gpseymour did, and if it's still not clear I'll do a quick how-to...

Anyway...

It we are getting technical, the only practical way to make a square hole with those tolerances in a steel plate is with a punch and die in a press. Yea, it could be done by hand but why? And what does any of that have to do with a Katana?

There's no way on earth you'd punch to that tolerance.

Might be just possible to precision broach.

Even standard consumer grade laser would struggle with half a thou to play with.

Best way for production for that tolerance would probably be grinding.

The reason why do it by hand is because it's part of the training - get stuck somewhere with a broken critical component and all you have is your toolbox - carve the bit by hand.

All it has to with a katana is a facetious way of showing that a file isn't necessarily just a general use tool.


True, there are various grades of flat bastard files. It you are in a hurry, use a coarser file first, then go to a finer grade cut and lighten your pressure using long strokes to prevent whoops. To your reference above, when using a file, the pressure you apply directly affects how much material is removed and therefore the finish. I have dulled long blades before in this manner. It really isn't that hard. You just have to have some patience.

Technically, there's one grade of bastard file - it goes coarse>bastard>2nd cut>smooth.

Grab a bastard and you know it'll be more aggressive than a 2nd cut, but a bit finer than a coarse.

It depends on which cut pattern though, and I do know that an awful lot of Americans just call any flat (and tapered) file a bastard. Which is wrong. Even if referring to a file from the American cut pattern set...

Bastardisation of the bastard if you ask me ;)

Oh, and the patience is also part of the reasoning of the square plate apprentice project - and another reason why it's maybe not a good idea for a non-DIY person to go at.
 

hoshin1600

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ok if we are talking tolerances here, are you asking for a +/- .0005 flatness? perpendicularity ? parallelism? and if the components are a matching set wouldnt there be a "max material condition"?

FORGET THE FILE OR PUNCH
CNC baby!!!
%
O0000 (PART #???? /REV)
(1 inch square for PDG)
(PROGRAMER: SJP 6/19/2017)
(PROGRAM PROVEN --NO--)
(----------------------------)

(--MANUAL DATA INPUT--)

(G54 X0.= center of stock)
(G54 Y0.= center of stock)
(G54 Z0.= top of stock)
(***********************************)
(T1 = 1/4 end mill )
(H01= length of tool)
(D01= .250)

(-----------------------------)



(--PROGRAM--)

G00 G17 G20 G40 G49 G80 G90 G98
T1
G00 G53 Z0.
G00 G90 G54 X0. Y0.
G01 X.5 F12
G01 G43 H01 Z.1 F50.
Z0. F25.
M03 S1500
Z-.4 M08
G01 G91 X1.
Y1.
X-1.
Y-1.
G01 G90 Z1.
M09
M30
%

Disclaimer: this is a facsimile only do not attempt to actually use in a Fanuc or Haas controller.
 

wab25

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I used to work with a guy, in an office. Couple times each day, he would get up from his cubical and do one or two of his chinese sword forms. He would do these up and down the aisles between the cubicals. His forms were very good... I have not seen too many people that could do sword forms that well. His sword was rather interesting... but he was doing this in the office. He had a plastic kids pirate sword. He bought, cut it in half along the plastic ridges, added some weights to approximate the weight and feel of his sword, and glued it back together. At work, all his forms were done slow and smooth, with the kids pirate sword, so that no one felt threatened.

This is just my opinion, which doesn't count for much... But, I vote for using the bokken you already have. The price is right, and you are already used to it. I get that you want flashy. But, didn't you mention you were on a budget? If you can't go top dollar on the XMA flash weapons... maybe going with the more authentic wood bokken, would draw more attention than a budget range XMA flash piece. But, then the way I look at it, your form should over shadow the look of the weapon and not the other way around. In my mind, what that guy did with the kids pirate sword was way more impressive to watch than most of the XMA flash forms I have seen. But, thats me.
 

pdg

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ok if we are talking tolerances here, are you asking for a +/- .0005 flatness? perpendicularity ? parallelism? and if the components are a matching set wouldnt there be a "max material condition"?

FORGET THE FILE OR PUNCH
CNC baby!!!

Always one isn't there? :p

Flatness (unworked surfaces) is from stock, it's the hole and sides of plate that we were tested on - flatness was a different piece later.

The hole and slug had to match so that the slug could be inserted in any orientation (8 variations), tolerance to be held in all axis.

(T1 = 1/4 end mill )

Oh, and the internal corners had a maximum permissible radius of 0.010" (that was the corner radius on the gauge bar so any larger radius and it wouldn't fit).
 

pdg

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I forgot...

if the components are a matching set wouldnt there be a "max material condition"?

Read the tolerances again - 1" was the mean dimension - hole had an allowable oversize with zero under, slug had allowable undersize with zero over.



Edit: my first attempt worked well, until the piece of stock with the hole reduced in temperature (warm due to handling) and nipped up on the slug...
 

pgsmith

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hoshin1600

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Oh, and the internal corners had a maximum permissible radius of 0.010" (that was the corner radius on the gauge bar so any larger radius and it wouldn't fit).
Hey hey hey...that wasn't in the original quote. ...now we are looking at an EDM not a VMC. ....that's gonna cost a little extra.

(for you non metal working types EDM is electric discharge machining not electronic dance music and VMC vertical mill machine)
 

dvcochran

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Yeah, it's wrong :p

Have a look at what @gpseymour did, and if it's still not clear I'll do a quick how-to...

Anyway...



There's no way on earth you'd punch to that tolerance.

Might be just possible to precision broach.

Even standard consumer grade laser would struggle with half a thou to play with.

Best way for production for that tolerance would probably be grinding.

The reason why do it by hand is because it's part of the training - get stuck somewhere with a broken critical component and all you have is your toolbox - carve the bit by hand.

All it has to with a katana is a facetious way of showing that a file isn't necessarily just a general use tool.




Technically, there's one grade of bastard file - it goes coarse>bastard>2nd cut>smooth.

Grab a bastard and you know it'll be more aggressive than a 2nd cut, but a bit finer than a coarse.

It depends on which cut pattern though, and I do know that an awful lot of Americans just call any flat (and tapered) file a bastard. Which is wrong. Even if referring to a file from the American cut pattern set...

Bastardisation of the bastard if you ask me ;)

Oh, and the patience is also part of the reasoning of the square plate apprentice project - and another reason why it's maybe not a good idea for a non-DIY person to go at.

Thanks, I found the XenFro website thanks to @Tony Dismukes and will noodle on it when I can.
To have any kind of service life, I agree it would take a secondary step if using a punch and die. I learned something new about files. It l see that the length of the file has a lot to do with coarseness.
Regarding patience, would it not be more effective for the OP (who said they have no handyman skills) to use a file and dull his blade? :)
 

pdg

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I learned something new about files. It l see that the length of the file has a lot to do with coarseness

There is much involved with a file - I think it's a bit of an American thing that length affects coarseness - I have 3" files with the same "tpi" (for want of a better term) as some 18" ones...

Regarding patience, would it not be more effective for the OP (who said they have no handyman skills) to use a file and dull his blade? :)

Well, if you practice on some bar stock and work up to modifying a real blade it could be viewed as an exercise in self development ;)
 

dvcochran

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Let me try again. In the lines below, I've inserted a code tag so you can see what the code looks like, then used that code to insert the lines, so you can see the result.

Code:
[quote]This is where the first quoted line would be.[/quote]
This is where your reply goes.

[quote]Each quote goes between the two quote tags, which are inside brackets. The /quote is the close, which ends a quote.[/quote]
I've pasted this same sequence below, so you can see both the code and the result.


This is where your reply goes.


I've pasted this same sequence below, so you can see both the code and the result.
Thanks, its been a long time since I did anything in in markup. I will figure it out but it may be ugly for a while. If I error again (I will) please let me know
 
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