Laser eye beams. A thought exercise.

[skribs]

I find it best not to let somebody live rent free in my head. If they bother me online too much I just put them on ignore for a couple months. Easy, Peasy, Japaneasy.

When my nephew was younger, he tried to say "easy, peasy, lemon squeezy." But he forgot a word and messed up another, and it became "easy women squeezy."

It doesn't help that up until this point, I'd never heard the phrase he was trying to say. I had no idea why my 6-year-old nephew was talking about squeezing easy women.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Pretty much all of you missed his point. This honestly reads like you are all his salty ex girlfriends.

I get that if you devote a lot of time to something you believe in, it sucks to have it called out.

But when the results for something just aren't there...anywhere..it should be called out.

As a small Jewish man once said....

Facts don't care about feelings.

The issue is that he doesn't see that there's some area between "never works" and "works consistently in MMA" (which is a reasonable place to look for evidence that something works against resistance, but not the only reasonable place). He also uses some things as evidence, then dismsisses similar evidence when presented by others to support a concept he doesn't agree with. He uses the worst kind of confirmation bias to attempt logic.

Which is a shame, because he starts from a pretty good premise, and an argument I've made myself. He just takes it to an extreme that sometimes reduces it to the ridiculous, before he manages to actually make his point and help others.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That sounds like a false claim right there.

And by the way. Not a logical fallacy.

Because Hitchens razor.
Hitchens's razor - Wikipedia


So when you say "coming from someone who routinely makes false claims about others and says (essentially), "Prove me wrong, or I'm right"

And you can't back that up. I can turn around and say nope. It straight up doesn't count.

Once again, you ignore your own past posts and claim innocence. And once again, I won't do your homework for you. If you aren't willing to learn, that's on you.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah. I am playing chess when everyone else is playing checkers basically.

Pretty claim. Unfortunately, you're playing games while others are trying to discuss and learn.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Drop Bear, as well as many others, make some really good points on fighting, on practical self defense. Points I agree with. I just feel that when they are presented in somewhat of a naked manner, they are frequently dismissed. I don't think they should be. At least not out of hand.

I agree, entirely. My beef with DB is on two points: 1) he purposely (in my opinion) makes statements he expects to be inflammatory, rather than statements that would be communicative and informative, and 2) he goes beyond his rational points to make claims about others when he has no knowledge to back his claims.

Which disappoints me beyond description, because I think he brings a lot of value to discussions when he doesn't play his games and doesn't make assumptions (then aggressively support them) without information. His basic premise is highly valuable, but his bias and approach reduce the value of his participation.

And I think he's actually a good guy, in spite of that, mostly because I think his heart's in the right place. I'd have a beer with him any day, even knowing we're probably going to bicker about stuff at some point.

 

[drop bear]

You don’t read that what Gerry is saying?
You are Hitchen’s razor in every post.

No. You are.

 

[drop bear]

This is exactly what I take issue with. This is a site that supports:

• JKD
• MMA
• BJJ
• Wrestling
• Boxing
• Kickboxing
• Kenpo
• Tai Chi
• Wing Chun
• Balintawak
• Arnis
• Aikido
• Judo
• Karate
• Ninjutsu
• Taekwondo
• Hapkido
• Tang Soo Do
• Muay Thai
• Krav Maga
• Other arts originating from China, the Philippines, Japan, Korea, Southeast Asia, Russia, the West

But according to his posts, I feel he would be over the moon if the list was more like this:

• MMA
• BJJ
• Wrestling
• Boxing
• Kickboxing
• Judo
• Muay Thai

He doesn't have any respect for any of the other arts. He's flat out told me that I don't know anything about several techniques because I haven't learned them in the sport most known for them. That I don't actually know a jab because I'm not a boxer, that I don't actually know an armbar because I'm not in BJJ or MMA. There are dozens of martial arts that this site supports, and he actively bashes the majority of them.

Lol. Ok show that you know a jab or an arm bar.

But.

It has to be in a way that doesn't also show I know laser eyes.

 

[drop bear]

Pretty claim. Unfortunately, you're playing games while others are trying to discuss and learn.

I swear to god. Sometimes I feel like I am banging my head against a wall.

That you don't understand what is so wrong with your statement. Kind of is the issue.

 

[drop bear]

Once again, you ignore your own past posts and claim innocence. And once again, I won't do your homework for you. If you aren't willing to learn, that's on you.

Yeah. I learned the I didn't say that game from you by the way.

Something something bias something purposely misrepresented what I vaguely said something you are being mean.

 

[Danny T]

So I was going to play this game.
But...nah.

People will always see things only from their perspective unless:
They are open to looking from others.
They are put into a dire situation that truly makes them see things from a different perspective.

Some simply refuse.

I have been exposed to a lot of different martial systems. All have merit of some sort. Every person I have trained with within these systems have some BS with them!!
I boxed, wrestled, trained shotokan prior to going into the military. While there I was exposed to TKD, Hapikido, several othe Karate styles, Wing Chun, FMA, and trained with a lot of people. When it came to fighting, and being able to use what worked Right Now Today...we threw out a lot of stuff. Most was BS for us at that time. We needed the things that worked today! We didn’t have the time to train it for 6 months getting in thousands of reps to ingrain it. That changed when I moved on in life. When the luxury of time become affordable I began to realize most of what I had thrown away actually was good stuff with time spent to develop it.

Others may never see it.
Is there BS in there as well...absolutely.
Training smart, train for fun, and train for what actually works for you.

 

[oftheherd1]

...

This will be the last time I respond to you about eye pokes and or standing arm bars.

How refreshing.

That sounds like a false claim right there.

And by the way. Not a logical fallacy.

Because Hitchens razor.
Hitchens's razor - Wikipedia


So when you say "coming from someone who routinely makes false claims about others and says (essentially), "Prove me wrong, or I'm right"

And you can't back that up. I can turn around and say nope. It straight up doesn't count.

Following some links from your link to Hithen's razor, I think you may have been reading Sagens Dragon In His Garage.

The Demon-Haunted World - Wikipedia

Or did I just let the genie dragon out of the garage too soon? ​

 

[skribs]

You said this regarding nuance:

It is because you don't understand the conversation.

Which is why I started this thread.

Then you made this comment, regarding my post about nuance.

Another exelent argument. My laser eye beams do not work in MMA because they are not designed for MMA.

So that is the proof they work right there.

So are you a hypocrite, or do you just not understand what nuance is?

 

[drop bear]

You said this regarding nuance:



Then you made this comment, regarding my post about nuance.



So are you a hypocrite, or do you just not understand what nuance is?

It is still because you don't understand the conversation.

Ok. We are using the laser eye beams as a metaphor for Russell's celestial tea cup.

Which uses a bunch of silly logic to describe something that doesn't exist.

So it doesn't work in MMA is very much like the laser eye argument. Basically we ask how we can mesure a claim and of course conditions come up that we will never be able to mesure it. Because there is an infinite amount of BS.

Now what you are trying to hit at the moment is a very common theological argument. Which I call I don't know equals God.

And it basically works like

what happens before the big bang?

I don't know.

Therefore God must exist.

Or specifically in your case.

These techniques are not for MMA.

Therefore they are suitable for non mma purposes.

But you haven't factored in that when you move outside the boundaries of either science with theology or what is quantifiable with MMA.

The options become infinite.

So. I can't wear glasses in MMA but that does not automatically make it suitable for self defense.

You have to support a hypothesis like "this is suitable for self defense" based on it's own merits. Not based on gaps in another hypothesis.

Now you can still quantify your argument but you need to find a way to quantify it.

Dogma and buthurt isn't very convincing.

 

[drop bear]

So I was going to play this game.
But...nah.

People will always see things only from their perspective unless:
They are open to looking from others.
They are put into a dire situation that truly makes them see things from a different perspective.

Some simply refuse.

I have been exposed to a lot of different martial systems. All have merit of some sort. Every person I have trained with within these systems have some BS with them!!
I boxed, wrestled, trained shotokan prior to going into the military. While there I was exposed to TKD, Hapikido, several othe Karate styles, Wing Chun, FMA, and trained with a lot of people. When it came to fighting, and being able to use what worked Right Now Today...we threw out a lot of stuff. Most was BS for us at that time. We needed the things that worked today! We didn’t have the time to train it for 6 months getting in thousands of reps to ingrain it. That changed when I moved on in life. When the luxury of time become affordable I began to realize most of what I had thrown away actually was good stuff with time spent to develop it.

Others may never see it.
Is there BS in there as well...absolutely.
Training smart, train for fun, and train for what actually works for you.

Ok. But I don't think there are infinite possibilities of things that work equally well which is what you seem to be describing.

I can't take any technique, train it long enough and have it somehow the equivalent of any other technique.

There has to be a method that determines what will work and what won't.

 

[drop bear]

How refreshing.

Following some links from your link to Hithen's razor, I think you may have been reading Sagens Dragon In His Garage.

Or did I just let the genie dragon out of the garage too soon? ​

I don't think I was being that subtle about it.

 

[Danny T]

Ok. But I don't think there are infinite possibilities of things that work equally well which is what you seem to be describing.

I can't take any technique, train it long enough and have it somehow the equivalent of any other technique.

There has to be a method that determines what will work and what won't.

Hmm
You either did not read all that wrote or you did not comprehend it.

 

[drop bear]

Hmm
You either did not read all that wrote or you did not comprehend it.

I assumed you were agreeing that laser eye beams have merit just some people don't see that yet through ignorance.

 

[skribs]

It is still because you don't understand the conversation.

Ok. We are using the laser eye beams as a metaphor for Russell's celestial tea cup.

Which uses a bunch of silly logic to describe something that doesn't exist.

So it doesn't work in MMA is very much like the laser eye argument. Basically we ask how we can mesure a claim and of course conditions come up that we will never be able to mesure it. Because there is an infinite amount of BS.

Now what you are trying to hit at the moment is a very common theological argument. Which I call I don't know equals God.

And it basically works like

what happens before the big bang?

I don't know.

Therefore God must exist.

Or specifically in your case.

These techniques are not for MMA.

Therefore they are suitable for non mma purposes.

But you haven't factored in that when you move outside the boundaries of either science with theology or what is quantifiable with MMA.

The options become infinite.

So. I can't wear glasses in MMA but that does not automatically make it suitable for self defense.

You have to support a hypothesis like "this is suitable for self defense" based on it's own merits. Not based on gaps in another hypothesis.

Now you can still quantify your argument but you need to find a way to quantify it.

Dogma and buthurt isn't very convincing.

I completely understand what you are saying. However, what you are saying lacks nuance when you give it as ham-fisted as you have. There is about as much nuance in your post as there is subtlety in a nuclear bomb. You're using hyperbole, which is the exact opposite of nuance.


The problem is that this post looks like you left the Hapkido thread with your tail between your legs and came here to rant like a teenager because people aren't listening to you. This post isn't you playing chess when others are playing checkers. This post is a childish tantrum because people dare to take martial arts you don't like.

I know exactly the point you're trying to make and how you're trying to make it. But in categorizing laser beam eyes with every other technique that isn't used in MMA, you've eliminated the ability to rationally discuss anything else. Arguing with you reminds me of arguing with my cousin...the one that got arrested. He uses the same hyperbolic leaps of logic that you do, he uses the same aggressive questioning, pretty much every tactic you use. That's who you remind me of. So you may understand why I take you less and less serious with every virtual tantrum you throw.

 

[dvcochran]

I completely understand what you are saying. However, what you are saying lacks nuance when you give it as ham-fisted as you have. There is about as much nuance in your post as there is subtlety in a nuclear bomb. You're using hyperbole, which is the exact opposite of nuance.
If you can understand what beat is saying all the time, that is quite a feat l.

The problem is that this post looks like you left the Hapkido thread with your tail between your legs and came here to rant like a teenager because people aren't listening to you. This post isn't you playing chess when others are playing checkers. This post is a childish tantrum because people dare to take martial arts you don't like.

I know exactly the point you're trying to make and how you're trying to make it. But in categorizing laser beam eyes with every other technique that isn't used in MMA, you've eliminated the ability to rationally discuss anything else. Arguing with you reminds me of arguing with my cousin...the one that got arrested. He uses the same hyperbolic leaps of logic that you do, he uses the same aggressive questioning, pretty much every tactic you use. That's who you remind me of. So you may understand why I take you less and less serious with every virtual tantrum you throw.

 

[Danny T]

I assumed you were agreeing that laser eye beams have merit just some people don't see that yet through ignorance.

Assumed eh?
Read it again.

I have been exposed to a lot of different martial systems. (Those I have been exposed to) All have merit of some sort.

(Also) Every person I have trained with within these systems have some BS with them!!


I began to realize most (not all) of what I had thrown away actually was good stuff with time spent to develop it.

(THIS >>>>>>) Is there BS in there as well...absolutely. (Which means not all has merit)

Train for what works for you. If it works for you, Good for you even if it is BS; it doesn't affect me. However, if it is BS and you need it you'll find out.