Kung Fu?

Kensai

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Xue Sheng said:
Yes I know I'm late to this and probably posting inappropriately at this point but I am not getting a pint of Guinness or a SoCo and lime out of this. (For future reference I prefer Guinness - and it does not need to be cold either)

First

I believe wowser77 is looking to study multiple styles in order to combine them into something that works for wowzer77.

That is commendable but difficult, it is hard to understand any art well enough as it applies to you without extensive study of said art.

If you want a style that focuses on kicks to understand kicking train savate. If you want to focus on punching train boxing and if you want some groundwork try wrestling. CMA, JMA, MMA, TMA are not necessary there is much more to the study of Martial Arts than kicking, punching and takedowns.

Bruce Lee studied a lot of things to come up with Jeet Kun Do, boxing, Wing Chun, Thai kick boxing, etc. But he did have a solid understanding of Wing Chun and fighting before doing this.

Second

Northern styles and high kicks, some yes, some no. Southern Styles and high kicks, some yes some no.

Wing Chun does train hands and low kicks very well and you can study Wing Chun for a year and have some understanding, look not to bad and be able to defend yourself. But you still do not have a good understanding of Wing Chun.

As per usual, spot on mate. Especially your last bit about Wing Chun. :asian:
 

funnytiger

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Xue Sheng said:
Second

Northern styles and high kicks, some yes, some no. Southern Styles and high kicks, some yes some no.

I love this answer! This is one of those things that is long debated on every MA form out there. I guess its human nature to want to categorize things, huh?

one SoCo and lime coming up. Interesting mix...

Oh boy... who are you telling? Anyone who went to the 5 Tigers afterparty this year will tell ya... funny tiger + SoCo = SUPER funny tiger (or at least I think I am at the time)!

;)
 

Kensai

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funnytiger said:
I love this answer! This is one of those things that is long debated on every MA form out there. I guess its human nature to want to categorize things, huh?



Oh boy... who are you telling? Anyone who went to the 5 Tigers afterparty this year will tell ya... funny tiger + SoCo = SUPER funny tiger (or at least I think I am at the time)!

;)

Yep, that pretty much sums me up after a pint or 12. I'm the worlds greatest dancer, the funniest bloke in the room, and the whole world loves me. Of this I am assured....Until I get home, get the cold shoulder from Mrs Kensai, and made to sleep downstairs. Then, I'm far from happy Kensai, and generally complain about my lot in life... woe is me, that kinda thing. :)
 

charyuop

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I wouldn't underestimate the internal martial art.
Since you would like to follow Bruce Lee path don't forget that his father taught him the Wu Style of Tai Chi and he mastered the Yang Style too.
 

Dragon_Palm_1987

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Dude, it isn't practical to just create an interpretation of Jeet Kune Do by compiling several different styles. First off, if you were to integrate several different styles, the underlying principles should have a degree of commonality. Bruce Lee only created Jeet Kune Do after he had a high level of proficiency and competency in Wing Chun. The adept Martial Artist, normally the one with many years of experience and cultivation, can use their Chi (energy or whatever you want to call it) to increase sensitivity or reflexes to manipulate the outcome in combat. This is just one minor use of Chi; the applications of Chi have practically no limitations.
 

Dragon_Palm_1987

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Kensai said:
Shouting and flipping? Having done karate many years back, there was never any shouting and flipping in what I did/saw. My partner studied karate for 4 or 5 years, and also never encountered "shouting and flipping". Strange analogy. Besides, we're also not talking about what you see as theatrical, but about how people that come to any given kung fu class and their possible perception of what they encounter. I've had Aikido guys that I train with say, quote unquote "kung fu, oh some of those kung fu styles are beautiful"... Hmmm... Wonder what they'd been watching? The kind of material below perhaps?

What about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUnooJWWEsw&search=kung%20fu%20forms That's not theatrics? I think the give-away is in the title where it says, "performed by Lin..."That's what I'm talking about. It's difficult to differentiate between "real" kung fu, and "wushu", especially for a beginner. For someone that may not know much about the art, I again stand by what I said about being potentially put off by watching this, perhaps thinking it's more about performance than effectiveness. I wasn't questioning the effectiveness of kung fu, as a WC practitioner, I'm aware of it's effectiveness. So, perhaps we should agree to disagree here.
Okay, now on the clip that you posted from YouTube, it seemed to be a contemporary translation of Long Fist Kung Fu, but it appeared to have some practical applications (i.e. low kicks); just simple techniques when you look to simplify their origins. Typically, it is all Kung Fu; the only thing about what you're calling "performance Kung Fu" is just the performing variation of Traditional Fung Fu. For example, the difference between traditional and contemporary Ba Zui Zhan Quan (8 Drunken Gods Fist) is more than obvious, especially to the practicioner. The movements of contemporary Zui Quan would be near impossible for someone to perform while intoxicated, because they are so deliberately exaggerated (like George W. Bush's ability to lead). Although Contemporary Wushu seems to be geared toward exaggerating Traditional Kung Fu, it still retains the essence of Kung Fu.
 

pstarr

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I don't know that I'd say that contemporary wushu still contains the "essence" of kung-fu. It contains some of the outer shell, though. Kind of like a doughnut. All the good stuff is on the outside. Nothing in the middle.
 
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wowzer77

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I'd like to say that this thread has helped me quite a deal..oh and about what dragon_palm said about qi (however u wanna spell), I still do not understand it. Everything about qi is a mystery to me and I don't understand the first thing about using it, but of course that is because the first style I studied was based completely on science and practical mechanics, not cultivating any inner energy. I'm hoping Wing Chun helps me learn more about qi.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I'll 3rd that. I think it's a helluva misnomer to believe that ALL kung fu styles are only theatrical, sure there's a lot of performance, but I think it would be wrong to believe that there's nothing of value under that.

I'll also not mention the fact that Wing Chun is actually...umm...kung fu also. :whip:
I will 4th that!
 

J. Pickard

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IF your goal is to to get the best from them all from a fighting perspective, then just pick one system and as you learn more about your body, adjust the system to fit you. Pressure test it frequently and make changes as needed. Ultimately a real fight, regardless of style, usually looks like some sort of kick boxing with a bit of grappling mixed in. In a real fight fine motor movement is nearly impossible and gross motor movement takes over. learn a style that you enjoy and pressure test it often and you will find a way to modify it to make it work for you. It may no longer look like the original style, but it will be uniquely yours and effective for you.
 

J. Pickard

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Kung Fu is very tied up into tradition and benign old philosophies. Although a beautiful art, perhaps not the best of fighting styles to study for effeciency
I think that is a very generalized and inaccurate viewpoint since "kung fu" isn't just one thing but rather literally thousands of thing and not all are considered martial art. I will agree there are a lot of (and I use the term loosely) "kung fu masters" that fall into this category of inefficient philosophers but I think you will find them to be the minority. They are quite sensationalized even in Chinese media which makes it seem like they are everywhere but there are actually a lot of good, practical kung fu schools out there that don't fall into the old traditions of over embellishing and teaching BS philosophies.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I'd like to say that this thread has helped me quite a deal..oh and about what dragon_palm said about qi (however u wanna spell), I still do not understand it. Everything about qi is a mystery to me and I don't understand the first thing about using it, but of course that is because the first style I studied was based completely on science and practical mechanics, not cultivating any inner energy. I'm hoping Wing Chun helps me learn more about qi.
read Nei Jia Quan by Jess o Brien. Internal martial arts teachers giving their point of view. It is a great starting point.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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When I said I didn't want to take formal classes, I meant I didn't want to take formal JKD classes, just incase that was a mixup. Also, I don't want to end up with the same results as bruce lee. Bruce's JKD was his interperatation of his art, I guess you could say. I actually expect to end up different. The thing about northern styles focusing on kicks is just something I've heard from multiple sources...and the reason I want something like that is because Wing Chun will teach me speed with my hands and low kicks, I know some basic ground fighting and getting out of certain situations (mug, knife attack, ect.) along with some korean kicking and punching techniques, so along with all this I would like to know some high acrobatic kicks and techniques to balance it all out. I know this wont be achievable for a pretty long time, but I have a long time to do it all...
Kung fu or gung fu just means hard work Skill. The hard working skilled person can have good Kung fu washing dishes. There are too many styles of Chinese martial art to even list and hundreds I have never heard of, and still hundreds that were lost or disappeared for various reasons. The big flashy acrobatic kicks in my system are mostly used to develop the body with dynamic exeraise. I personally cannot see myself using double twirl kicks in a fight. It looks cool and feels like an accomplishment once you are able to pull it off and stick it in both directions, but I cant say its an effective technique unless you plan on fighting mounted Manchu warriors.
 

Xue Sheng

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Kung fu or gung fu just means hard work Skill. The hard working skilled person can have good Kung fu washing dishes. There are too many styles of Chinese martial art to even list and hundreds I have never heard of, and still hundreds that were lost or disappeared for various reasons. The big flashy acrobatic kicks in my system are mostly used to develop the body with dynamic exeraise. I personally cannot see myself using double twirl kicks in a fight. It looks cool and feels like an accomplishment once you are able to pull it off and stick it in both directions, but I cant say its an effective technique unless you plan on fighting mounted Manchu warriors.
Sorry, I just couldn't resist :D great post by the way

1635871735418.jpeg
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I think that is a very generalized and inaccurate viewpoint since "kung fu" isn't just one thing but rather literally thousands of thing and not all are considered martial art. I will agree there are a lot of (and I use the term loosely) "kung fu masters" that fall into this category of inefficient philosophers but I think you will find them to be the minority. They are quite sensationalized even in Chinese media which makes it seem like they are everywhere but there are actually a lot of good, practical kung fu schools out there that don't fall into the old traditions of over embellishing and teaching BS philosophies.
Sorry, I just couldn't resist :D great post by the way

View attachment 27511
Im going to archery to deal with this! High kicks dont cut it!
 

Oily Dragon

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as you learn more about your body, adjust the system to fit you

Kangaroo kung fu is the real deal. Years of training and sparring from birth leads to fame and glory in the court later on. Or broken bones. So it is with humans.

 

Wing Woo Gar

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read Nei Jia Quan by Jess o Brien. Internal martial arts teachers giving their point of view. It is a great starting point.
Im a tad bit biased towards that book btw. I had dinner and played board games with the author and two guys that are in the book last night. Plus my Sifu and my Sigung are in it. Just being honest here.
 

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