Kung fu or Gong fu?

S

Sanxiawuyi

Guest
This is from my web site, but I thought you may find it helpful, and I know all my friends from mainland China would appreciate you taking a look, please enjoy!

Peking, Beijing, etc..
Kung fu, Gung fu, Gong fu, etc..
Chi Kung, Ki Gong, Qigong, etc..
Bagua, Pa Kua Chang, etc..
Xingyi, Hsing-I, Hsing yi, etc..

I have heard many people, some in the martial arts a long time, ask the difference between the "two arts" of Pa Kua Chang and Ba Gua Zhang, or Kung fu and Gong fu. I thought I would give a brief explanation for the readers:

China encompasses a huge area of land that contains many ethnic and language differences. Centuries ago the Chinese began using an ideograph, non-phonetic, written language for all political divisions so that everyone could read the same language but pronounce it in their unique dialect. Thus, although they couldn't have conversations together, all officials could in fact communicate easily through the written language.

This gives us the spoken differences between the National language of China, Mandarin, (spoken by most of the Chinese), and other dialects such as Cantonese, (spoken by the people of Guangdong province and neighboring areas, i.e. Hong Kong), This is where in we find the word "Shaolin" (Mandarin) and "Sil Lum" (Cantonese), "Shifu" (Mandarin) and Sifu (Cantonese). Other dialects include: Fukienese, Shanghainese, and many many more.


When these words are translated into our phonetic English, the translators sometimes use Mandarin and sometimes Cantonese to give the sound of the word to create our phonetic translation.
This causes one set of differences right off the top, but there is more...the first translators of Mandarin Chinese to the romanized system created a system of translating the ideograms and sounds into what is called the Wade-Giles romanization system. This system gives us "Peking," "Tao", "kung fu", and all the apostrophes (T'ai Ch'i Ch'uan, Pa k'ua, K'ung fu, etc.)

P is pronounced B
K is pronounced G
T is pronounced D
Etc..

The pinyin romanization system, adopted by the People's Republic of China in 1958, has in the meantime become the standard for the world, including recognition by the International Standards Organization (ISO) and the United Nations. The Pinyin system was created to closer represent the sound of Mandarin Chinese. It gives us the "q's", "zh's" and "x's" and caused the changes we have all seen in such words as:

Beijing replacing "Peking,"
Gong or gong fu replacing "kung fu"
Bagua Zhang replacing "Pa kua Chang"
Taijiquan replacing "Tai Chi Ch'uan"
Xing-yi replacing "Hsing-i"

So, if you are pronouncing --- Ba Gua Zhang literally as "P"a "K"ua "C"hang, Beijing as "P"ei"K"ing, or Gong fu as "K"ung "f"u --- it's not that "your wrong", it's more of a mistake of misinformation. It is just as confusing for Mandarin Chinese people who come to the west and don't understand why Westerners pronounce Beijing Duck "Peking Duck" or Dao as "Tao".

I hope this helps.

For Chinese translations, try the
Chinese-English Dictionary

:asian:
 
OP
S

Sanxiawuyi

Guest
Sorry, it should be Tai Chi Ch'uan in Wade-Giles, and
Taijiquan in Pinyin Mandarin Chinese

Sanxiawuyi
:asian:
 

Cthulhu

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Thanks, Sanxiawuyi! That explained a lot! I was aware of the differences between the Wade-Giles and Pinyin romanization systems, but I never knew why.

Cthulhu
 
OP
F

fist of fury

Guest
Thanks I've been confused on this issue for sometime every time I thought I understood it I found out I was wrong again.
 
OP
C

Chiduce

Guest
Originally posted by Sanxiawuyi

This is from my web site, but I thought you may find it helpful, and I know all my friends from mainland China would appreciate you taking a look, please enjoy!

Peking, Beijing, etc..
Kung fu, Gung fu, Gong fu, etc..
Chi Kung, Ki Gong, Qigong, etc..
Bagua, Pa Kua Chang, etc..
Xingyi, Hsing-I, Hsing yi, etc..

I have heard many people, some in the martial arts a long time, ask the difference between the "two arts" of Pa Kua Chang and Ba Gua Zhang, or Kung fu and Gong fu. I thought I would give a brief explanation for the readers:

China encompasses a huge area of land that contains many ethnic and language differences. Centuries ago the Chinese began using an ideograph, non-phonetic, written language for all political divisions so that everyone could read the same language but pronounce it in their unique dialect. Thus, although they couldn't have conversations together, all officials could in fact communicate easily through the written language.

This gives us the spoken differences between the National language of China, Mandarin, (spoken by most of the Chinese), and other dialects such as Cantonese, (spoken by the people of Guangdong province and neighboring areas, i.e. Hong Kong), This is where in we find the word "Shaolin" (Mandarin) and "Sil Lum" (Cantonese), "Shifu" (Mandarin) and Sifu (Cantonese). Other dialects include: Fukienese, Shanghainese, and many many more.


When these words are translated into our phonetic English, the translators sometimes use Mandarin and sometimes Cantonese to give the sound of the word to create our phonetic translation.
This causes one set of differences right off the top, but there is more...the first translators of Mandarin Chinese to the romanized system created a system of translating the ideograms and sounds into what is called the Wade-Giles romanization system. This system gives us "Peking," "Tao", "kung fu", and all the apostrophes (T'ai Ch'i Ch'uan, Pa k'ua, K'ung fu, etc.)

P is pronounced B
K is pronounced G
T is pronounced D
Etc..

The pinyin romanization system, adopted by the People's Republic of China in 1958, has in the meantime become the standard for the world, including recognition by the International Standards Organization (ISO) and the United Nations. The Pinyin system was created to closer represent the sound of Mandarin Chinese. It gives us the "q's", "zh's" and "x's" and caused the changes we have all seen in such words as:

Beijing replacing "Peking,"
Gong or gong fu replacing "kung fu"
Bagua Zhang replacing "Pa kua Chang"
Taijiquan replacing "Tai Chi Ch'uan"
Xing-yi replacing "Hsing-i"

So, if you are pronouncing --- Ba Gua Zhang literally as "P"a "K"ua "C"hang, Beijing as "P"ei"K"ing, or Gong fu as "K"ung "f"u --- it's not that "your wrong", it's more of a mistake of misinformation. It is just as confusing for Mandarin Chinese people who come to the west and don't understand why Westerners pronounce Beijing Duck "Peking Duck" or Dao as "Tao".

I hope this helps.

For Chinese translations, try the
Chinese-English Dictionary

:asian:
I have a question on the Gong Fu Style of Fong Ngan or Phoenix Eye which was developed by Kow Soong if my spelling is correct. Where would i find some historical information on this martial art style? Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
 

arnisador

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Originally posted by Chiduce

I have a question on the Gong Fu Style of Fong Ngan or Phoenix Eye which was developed by Kow Soong if my spelling is correct. Where would i find some historical information on this martial art style?

The Cheong/Draeger book doesn't have much (5 pages). It refers to the art as Chuka Shaolin and seems to be looking at a Malaysian branch (having moved there circa 1930).

I have wondered how closely related the various Southern styles that use the index knuckle fist are (chuka, Southern praying mantis, bak mei, and so on, including whatever pangainoon system influenced Uechi-ryu karate).
 
OP
C

Chiduce

Guest
Originally posted by arnisador



The Cheong/Draeger book doesn't have much (5 pages). It refers to the art as Chuka Shaolin and seems to be looking at a Malaysian branch (having moved there circa 1930).

I have wondered how closely related the various Southern styles that use the index knuckle fist are (chuka, Southern praying mantis, bak mei, and so on, including whatever pangainoon system influenced Uechi-ryu karate).
I see your point here. The southern white crane system uses the phoenix eye fist as an ultimate strike to vital areas. Motobu Ryu also uses the single first knuckle fist. Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu Karate uses the beak thrust in it's gojushiho kata ( 54 steps of the black tiger) which can also upon using bunkai transform into a phoenix eye fist strike. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!
 
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