Korean Yudo and Hapkido Association - Thanks Don Roley!

[MartialArtist]

Another fraud found, and the source found no other than our Don Roley. ARK, I would try to split all ties from that organization as far as possible, as you may have unknowingly been involved in such an organization.

http://www.ohiotkd.net/taekwondoreporter/page5.htm

 

[chufeng]

There's a sucker born every minute...

From ARK's WebSite:

Korean Yudo & Hapkido Association

Founded by Grandmaster Jack 'Pappasan' Stearns. One of the oldest and most prestigeous Martial Arts Organizations in the world. Tell Pappasan that Soke David Schultz sent ya!

and this...

Unified Sokeship Association International

Founded by Soke Robert Gelinas, Conneticut State Representative for the Korean Yudo & Hapkido Association and the International League of Martial Arts Masters. A fellowship of Grandmasters,Heads of Family,Founders and Sokes.

I'm sure ARK wasn't aware of the dubious nature of these organizations...but it is exactly what several people have warned about...I am not interested in debating anything here. I put this out as evidence of how easily people can be fooled, including ARK.

It does not detract from his abilities, nor does it detract from his newly formed martial system...I agree with Martial Artist...dump 'em.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[A.R.K.]

I appreciate the heads up. In regards to the USAI I have broken off any tie. I thought it had been edited out of our site some time ago. I will make the appropriate adjustments.

In regards to KYHA, there may be another side to the coin on this. I am waiting patiently to see the outcome on information that I have been gathering.

For example, the KYHA statement is that the medal was bought for the purposes of donation to the local chapter of the VFW. A Sgt with the Broward Co. Sheriff's office was supposedly Mr. Stern's student at one time and there was a falling out. The Sgt knew of the purchased medal and arrested Mr. Stern. Apparently it is a second degree misd to be in possesion of one for any reason without it being awarded to you. This may have been a vendetta type situation.

It should remember that Mr. Stern suffered a massive stroke prior to this incident taking place as well.

It is a fact that Mas Oyama stayed with Mr. Stern several times and put on seminars at the Paja Dojo in New York. In light of this I'm questioning the validity of comments that he never trained with/under great Asian Masters. Mas Oyama presented him a special certificate of appreciation along with photos of them together at various places and functions.

I recently had the displeasure of email communication with the president of a rival organization. He emailed me out of the blue with similar allegations...but did not sign it. After much inquiry I found out it was this 'president 9th dan mac daddy'. I asked him why he sent me the original email and didn't at least sign it [it was a link to the artical above]. He stated someone else asked him to, unfortunately for him, I knew the individaul he named. So I contacted this second person, who knew nothing about the situation.

Back to square one with Mr. President. He then stated that Mr. Stern had absolutely NO rank and never did. So I investigated further...and found out that he in fact did. Then Mr. President stated that 'well yes he did but only half of what he claimed'. Mr. Stern claims an 8th Dan after almost 60 years in the martial arts. Awarded to him on his last trip to Korea. I say awarded because with his stroke he is only a shadow of his former self. So this means that, according to Mr. President, Mr. Stern has held at least a 4-5th Dan in a National Yudo organization. I asked him how old this information was...decades. So in all Mr. Stern in fact did/does have rank, recognized by a legitimate organization and was awarded his 8th recently [a few years ?] for his contributions to the arts while in Korea.

After much discussion with this 'President' he then wanted me to join his organization and dump Mr. Sterns...at a cost of $100 per Dan recognized! I have had no further contact with this individual.

I do know for a fact that the governments of Saudi Arabia and Turkey rolled out the red carpet for Mr. Stern a couple of years ago when the crown prince requested him to teach their [Saudi]. There are alot of Middle Eastern MA's that are fully satisfied with his credentials. And look at the names on the site. If he has indeed hoodwinked us, he has done quite a job on quite a few all over the world.

If it turns out to be true then I can disassocitate myself and my system. As Chufeng has mentioned it in no way reflects on my abilities or credentials nor those of my students. However, I cannot just easily cast someone off without further investigation. There are to many inconsistencies thus far in these negative reports. Perhaps true, but it bears deeper scrutiny. It may be the case of rivalry and vendettas against a 73 year old disabled man that can't aptly defend himself. KYHA is quite a large far reaching organization that stresses fraternalism and doesn't charge hundreds of dollars. In fact many people have joined it for free. If Mr. Stern is ripping people off...then he's doing a lousy job of it by paying for them out of his own pocket. I know of SERVERAL cases in which he has done so.

We shall see...

:asian:

 

[chufeng]

ARK,

It sucks that Mas Oyama is no longer with us...
My teacher actually studied KyukushinKai and holds a Nidan in that system (No easy feet back in the 60s)...He would actually call Master Oyama to verify credentials of those who claimed rank in Kyukushin (it seems the concept of falsifying dan rank goes way back) and exposed more than one fraud...
It might have made this process easier for you...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
It should remember that Mr. Stern suffered a massive stroke prior to this incident taking place as well.

I don't mean to sound disrespectful or hurtful, but massive strokes incapacitate the person, they don't cause them to make outlandish claims of this nature... In fact, massive strokes (if massive enough) cause complete loss of ability to create such fancifcul stories, much less relate them to anyone...

Mr. Stern claims an 8th Dan after almost 60 years in the martial arts. Awarded to him on his last trip to Korea. I say awarded because with his stroke he is only a shadow of his former self. So this means that, according to Mr. President, Mr. Stern has held at least a 4-5th Dan in a National Yudo organization.

I'm going to say this, then let it go and never visit it in relation to this topic again...

At what point did anyone forget that he studies and claims to head a Japanese Jujutsu style, but is somehow "recognized" by a Korean organization that doesn't even teach the art Mr. Stern is being ranked in???

I am going to go to my handy dandy MSWord and make myself a 3d degree black belt in Muay Thai (the fact that such a thing doesn't exist notwithstanding), a paisley sash in White Monkey Kickboxing, and a salmon belt in Chilean Ju Joootsooo (the fact that I spell it wrong doesn't matter, after all, since I can spell it any way I like - I'm American! ).

Okay, I'm done...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[chufeng]

YiLiQuan1...his stroke is irrelevant...his claims preceed his unfortunate health situation.

I think his string of lies speaks for itself.
If someone wants to continue to allign with his organization, that is the individual's right to do so...but it lacks credibility.

Funny thing is, that Sterns may have actually helped MA in some ways by promoting it when it was more obscure...even though he was inflating his own standing in the arts (of course, that does not excuse his lies).

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by chufeng
YiLiQuan1...his stroke is irrelevant...his claims preceed his unfortunate health situation.

Perhaps I hadn't made my point clearly enough, since that was my point...

Stroke or no stroke, he was making claims to fanciful stories before his health had any impact on anything at all...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[A.R.K.]

It is indeed sad Mas is no longer with us for many reasons

And again, I'm piecing together information as a obtain it, as best as I'm able. I have to evaluate the validity of the sources. One claimed he never trained with Asian masters. To me, Mas qualifies as an Asian master. I've seen the photos and certificates of apprectiation of a much younger Mr. Stern. Circa the early 60's. Would Mas associate with a fraud with no credentials and teach in his Dojo? Would he have stayed with him in his home on two occasions? I wasn'nt there so I am left with investigation after the fact.

That is why I posted two threads in the TKD forums a month or so ago requesting information on some sources.

And again, if he is doing this for fame and money he is failing badly on both regards.

My point about the stroke was that the second degree misd happened afterwards with what looks to be a petty sqabble with a former student who happened to have a badge and a means of retribution. I wasn't there and can't say for sure...but I am in the business and I know what CAN happen

Again, I don't want to jump on any bandwagon either way. I will bide my time and wait for more info that is still out there. Either way, I taught long before KYHA and will continue to teach regardless. To me they are just what they claim, a fraternal organization. And I have met many fine men through KYHA.

Again, we shall see....

:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

quote: Sure, he can get together with some of his “buds” and make up some bogus organizations and they could have a mutual dan promotion party until they are all 25th dans.

Originally posted by A.R.K.
You keep whinning about this. Anybody done this that you know of? I mean actually know of? Anybody here? Present some proof for a change

Originally posted by A.R.K.
I appreciate the heads up. In regards to the USAI I have broken off any tie. I thought it had been edited out of our site some time ago. I will make the appropriate adjustments.

When you first joined MT, which was only a short time ago, you couldn’t stop singing the praises of Jack "Papa-san" Stern and how he was so well respected in Asia, etc, etc. I told you I doubted his claims and you scoffed at me at. (re-read your old posts for clarification)……..now you want to bail on him.
I also find it odd that you keep “trimming” your website after things on MT are brought to light .

(Cultural note: The use of Mama-san denotes someone who works in the mizushobai trade, night district for all the non-nihongo-capable. It is not a deragetory term if that is the kind of business you are in…….NEVER call your mother in law that though. Likewise, “Papa-san” has the same nuance as “Pimp-Daddy” so I find it rather odd for someone that claims to be in tune with Asian culture would call himself or allow others to call him “Papa-san”)

Originally posted by A.R.K.
If he has indeed hoodwinked us, he has done quite a job on quite a few all over the world.

In my opinion MA people and religious fanatics are the easiest to “hoodwink” since they want to believe.

Originally posted by A.R.K.
It may be the case of rivalry and vendettas against a 73 year old disabled man that can't aptly defend himself.

Or maybe people have just caught up to him now.

Originally posted by A.R.K.
KYHA is quite a large far reaching organization that stresses fraternalism and doesn't charge hundreds of dollars. In fact many people have joined it for free. If Mr. Stern is ripping people off...then he's doing a lousy job of it by paying for them out of his own pocket. I know of SERVERAL cases in which he has done so.

If Stern is claiming to have won the CMH, been a prisoner of war, fought in combat he is ripping people off………the US Government certainly takes a dislike to such claims whether he is doing it for monetary benefit or not…….so much so that they can fine him and imprison him.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
One claimed he never trained with Asian masters.

From the article:

“Stern never trained in martial arts overseas. In sounds kind of redundant to say he was never in the CIA and never served with Air America.”

It says he never trained over seas.
I know for a fact he was never in Air America…….my uncle was Vice President of Operations for Air America and would have heard of him.

Stern may have worked for American Airlines......but never Air America.


Air America links to my uncle:
http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/winter99-00/art7.html

http://www.air-america.org/About/Citation_Medallion_Cachet.htm

Originally posted by A.R.K.
Would Mas associate with a fraud with no credentials and teach in his Dojo? Would he have stayed with him in his home on two occasions? I wasn'nt there so I am left with investigation after the fact.

I met Oyama on several occasions.
He was a “master promoter” that’s for sure, having done the “Pro Wrastlin” circuit in the US, as well as doing outrageous demos.
I doubt very much he would have cared who came to his seminar.

 

[MartialArtist]

The cruelest hoax was the one he perpetuated on his own students. While teaching in the Weston school, he charged everyone for membership in the Korean Yudo Association, who issued rank certificates. This turns out to be an nonexistent organization in the State of Florida. It has no corporation papers, no D.B.A. records, no bank account and has filed no tax returns. Certificates were worthless - just as the similar promotion certificates he supposedly got from Korea are worthless.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
If he has indeed hoodwinked us, he has done quite a job on quite a few all over the world.

“Hoodwinking” is when you play a joke on someone for amusement and people can laugh about it.

When people lie about their military careers, being in clandestine organizations they are not “Hoodwinking” people they are lying. Maybe they don’t get paid money for it but they get paid in unearned respect and unearned prestige……..which may or may not lead to some financial compensation later on. It may for example get certain doors open to them when without such credentials they might not have been.

They are riding on the good names of those who fought, suffered and died in combat, those who actually suffered unspeakable pain at the hand of the enemy in prison camps, those people like my uncle that actually did “the job” under extreme circumstances and hazardous conditions not knowing if they were ever coming back.

So you’ll have to pardon me if I think it’s extremely wrong when some “non-hacker” piece of :cuss: makes claims to something others paid for with their lives.:rpo:

 

[Matt Stone]

A hoodwink is a blindfold, hood, or other device used to obstruct a person's vision. The term is used to refer to the blindfold used in Masonic ceremonies, and it is from there that the term entered into common American usage...

Just a minor trivia note.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
A hoodwink is a blindfold, hood, or other device used to obstruct a person's vision. The term is used to refer to the blindfold used in Masonic ceremonies, and it is from there that the term entered into common American usage...

Just a minor trivia note.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

Thanks for the “technical” translation of hoodwink.

Would you consider claiming to win the CMH an act of hoodwinking or something more serious?

 

[MartialArtist]

Well, it's kinda funny when there's nothing Korean on the website really, he uses Japanese terms and may I add incorrectly, etc. etc.

 

[Don Roley]

ARK,
You see now what I was talking about when I said there was plenty of stuff out there to make a reasonable person doubt you? I mean....geeeeez.

I took a look with the search function with the words "Jack Stern" on this site and found that you repeatedly seemed to have mentioned his name, mainly to strengthen your appearance of legitimacy. The standard form seemed to be along the lines of, "well, I have already proven myself to such luminaries as Jack Stern, so I do not see why I should have to prove myself to you. If someone like Stern sensei accepts me as a legitmate, skilled martial artist, I don't see how you can treat me as any less."

And then I found the article outlining how they guy you called "sensei" was convicted in a court of law for lying about something people have died for. His entire combat history, his claims of training, everything.. all lies.

So you see why I urge you to limit yourself to stuff you can point to in other people's experience? After this, the suspicious will always look at you as just a fraud who joined together with another fraud for mutual benifit. If that is not the case, you need to prove it. Yes, you need to prove it more than the typical person. You don't want to name your teacher who gave you your eighth dan, or give the name of the orginization it comes from. You give many excuses, but after you associated with a guy who was convicted in court like Stern was, how can anyone not look at you with suspicion? If that was not enough, there is all the little things that have gone here, like you taking the role of this orginization devoted to Korean martial arts and you do not even know the Korean equivelent of "sensei?" How on God's Earth can you scream at people that do not trust you with all these marks against your charecter? How much do you expect people to overlook?

And you are still defending him!! You want other sites that will back up what this one said. Fine! Just ask and I can provide them. Some of them even tell you exactly how you can check up claims for yourself on things like the Medal of Honor, Combat veteren status, etc. This is not a vedetta by a few individuals as you seem to be saying- this man is a fraud! My father volunteered for WWII. There is a Roley on the Black Wall in Washington. People have died and gotten less praise from you than Stern. And now you seem to be hedging your bets because Stern is 73 years old, not really in it for the money in your opinion, etc....... Good God, what are we supposed to think about the kind of person you are!!!


Of course, if you just renounce all claims you are not willing to openly prove in an open forum (yes- I am talking about the teacher who gave you the eighth dan you claim) and do not talk about anything from your personal experience, then things will be much calmer around here. But if you are not willing to bend over backwards to earn trust, this will hang around your neck like a badge of shame. Once bitten, twice shy and your "sensei" did something that those that lost people in combat can never forgive and continued with his deceptive behavior.


On a side note, this is not the first time this group has been brought up and the fact that Stern was a complete fraud discussed. E-budo had a thread in Febuary of 2001. I recalled it after Ryushikan and MartialArtist started talking about it being in Florida and used Japanese terms. A quick check of that site could have told anyone years ago that Stern was spitting on the graves of those who had died for this country.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Now tell us how your really feel Don!:rofl:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Don Roley


ARK,
...... If that was not enough, there is all the little things that have gone here, like you taking the role of this orginization devoted to Korean martial arts and you do not even know the Korean equivelent of "sensei?"

Just in case someone wants to make any adjustments to their website the Korean word for sensei is Sa Beom Nim.

Some other terms:

Kwan Jang Nim.....................Master Instructor


Sa Beom Nim..............................Instructor


Cha Ryot..................................Attention


Kyung Nae.......................................Bow


Jhoon-Bi...............................Ready Stance


Shi Jack......................................Begin


Ki Hap.........................................Yell


Kuman..........................................Stop


Diro Dora...............................Turn Around


Baro...........................Back to Ready Stance


Do Bak......................................Uniform


An Young Ha Shim Neeka...........Hello, How are you


An Young E K Ship Sheeo.....................GoodBye


Kan Sa Ham Ne Da..........................Thank You


Cha Ma Nay Oh..........................Your Welcome


Piel Sung...................................Victory


Kuk Ki.........................................Flag


Hana...........................................One


Duhl...........................................Two


Set..........................................Three


Net...........................................Four


Dasut.........................................Five


Yosut..........................................Six


Ilgob........................................Seven


Yodul........................................Eight


Ahup..........................................Nine


Yuhl...........................................Ten

 

[RyuShiKan]

From CNN at this URL:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9612/04/medal.without.honor/


Florida man wears medal without honor
December 4, 1996
Web posted at: 8:20 a.m. EST
From Correspondent Robert Vito

FORT LAUDERDALE, Florida (CNN) -- Wherever 67-year-old Jackie Stern went in this south Florida community, he brought along his Medal of Honor, awarded by Congress to military personnel who have risked life in combat beyond the call of duty.

Speeches to Gulf War veterans, war stories at police stations and appearances at public occasions were all ripe moments for Stern to share his heroic past.

The only problem with Stern's highly visible patriotism is that he was living a lie. He had not earned the Medal of Honor -- he had bought it.

"He marched around in parades. He came around reviewing ROTC troops, even coming in here to get photographed wearing the medal," said Sgt. Dan Ciacciarelli of the Broward County Sheriff's Department. "He's pretty brazen."



For nearly 10 years, Stern bragged he had won the medal for bravery in the Korean War. He even went so far as to include a prisoner of war tag on the front of his car and a license plate on the back bearing a purple heart.

But in real military life, 'Captain' Jack Stern never made it past private.


Eventually Stern's public displays provoked suspicion among some in the community. His tall tale unraveled when police learned he had never even set foot on a continent where the U.S. was involved in a conflict.

Faced with the truth, Stern pleaded guilty to federal charges involving the unearned medal of honor.

In a federal courtroom, the former bread truck driver and polygraph operator apologized to veterans. He said his actions had been stupid and pitiful.

His son blamed his father's behavior on a massive stroke in 1985 that left him partially paralyzed.

Stern said he bought the medal at a military show for $800. The medal turned out to be authentic but not officially issued.

Stern could have been sentenced to six months in jail; instead, the judge placed him on one year's probation and ordered him to write letters of apology to the 171 surviving recipients of the Medal of Honor.


Reaction in Stern's community was perhaps harsher than the court's sentence.

"He did make a mockery of the highest medal this nation has to offer," said veteran Bill DeClemente.

"He made a fool of the whole community," added one woman who did not want to be identified. "Justice has to be done."


_______________________________________________


Gosh I guess CNN has a "vendetta" against “Papa-san” too.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Related story also by CNN:

Company fined for selling fake Medals of Honor

December 4, 1996
Web posted at: 1:45 p.m. EST

(CNN) -- The New York company that holds the government contract to make the nation's highest combat decoration was fined $80,000 Tuesday for selling 300 bootleg Medals of Honor.

H.L.I. Lordship Industries also will give the government $22,500 it received for illegally selling the bogus medals for $75 apiece at memorabilia shows from 1991 to 1994.

The family-owned company also could lose its status as a government contractor. Its only business is making medals and insignia. The Hauppauge, New York, company pleaded guilty before sentencing to a single misdemeanor count of making unauthorized medals.

Ward and Wes McAllister, the two brothers who operated the company and were responsible for the fake medals, have been fired and no longer hold stock in the company

In the 134 years since the Medal of Honor was authorized, 3,401 people have been given the award, most posthumously, for risking their life in combat beyond the call of duty.