kempo and taiji

[graychuan]

What kind of taiji are you practicing and teaching to your students? How much of it do you know and understand? Have you learned a complete form, if so, which? Or are you doing primarily qigong training?

I learned the Chen Man Ching 37 posture form from master Joan Richert. Studied 4 years with Robert Grant, a lineage instructor in the tradition of Gia Fu Feng. Gia fu's form practice only consisted of the 24 movement 'peking' set or 'simplified' form as the teaching was more based on concepts and qi gong but i learned a whole curriculum of martial techniques, push hands and Da Lu. I have since learned the 'traditional' yang form from Carl Meek and Bil Wojazinski(i think i spelled it right.) from the Kentucky Tai Chi Chuan Association. Also did a lot of seminar study with Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming. Picked up some mad/crazy Chin Na skills that complimanted the Kempo and Tai Chi nicely. :wink2:

And hey , Marlon, I did reply to the PM you sent. let me know if it go thru or not.

Chris

 

[IWishToLearn]

i am not sure if it deserves its own thread but does it not seem like many many kempo people do taichi...especially the higher the ranking? Does anyone care to speculate why?

Marlon

While I wouldn't consider myself high ranked - I have practiced t'ai chi for about seven years now. It's movements are included within just about every aspect of the kenpo I practice and teach.

 

[graychuan]

While I wouldn't consider myself high ranked - I have practiced t'ai chi for about seven years now. It's movements are included within just about every aspect of the kenpo I practice and teach.

The 'master key' at work. AWESOME!

~Cg~

 

[marlon]

I think we could get away with saying that it is almost a norm for Kempoists to practice Tai Chi Chuan.
I
'There is a Master Key to Tai-Chi Chuan. Possessing it, if we are willing to devote time and energy to practice, we can continue to make progress throughout life to the limits of our natural ability. Without this key, we can only hope to improve our technique to a certain level, and then will "sign away our time," as the Song of Thirteen Postures says. The Master Key defines the art of Tai-Chi Chuan. We can do the forms, the "ch'uan," and even practice a variety of principles such as slowness, relaxation, straight spine, and certain hand positions. We can even reach high technical achievement; but without the Maser Key, we should not call our art "Tai-Chi Chuan."

The Master Key to Tai-Chi Chuan, is so complete that it contains all other principles within it, yet so simple that some people will hear and laugh, some will acknowledge it yet forget to practice it, and only a few will achieve mastery with it. Yet anyone can hear and immediately have some understanding of it. What is the Master Key? You do not have to take my word for it: I did not originate it. It has existed since ancient times, distinguishing Tai Chi from other "ch'uan." I only wish to emphasize it so Tai-Chi players of all styles can see the common ground defining their practice, and can work together toward mastery.'

-Jou, Tsung Hwa

Perhaps i am missing something. Can someone say in thier own words what they see as Jou, Tsung Hwa's definition of the master key?

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[Xue Sheng]

Perhaps i am missing something. Can someone say in thier own words what they see as Jou, Tsung Hwa's definition of the master key?

Respectfully,
Marlon

Train it, understand it, make it your own.

Don't just go through the motions.

In my Sig I have a quote from Di Guoyong's book

If you train martial arts without training deep skill you arrive at old age with nothing

Pretty much the same idea, or at least that is my take on it.

 

[graychuan]

Perhaps i am missing something. Can someone say in thier own words what they see as Jou, Tsung Hwa's definition of the master key?

Respectfully,
Marlon

My particular take is that the master key is exactly what he says it is. Just like the first line of the Tao Te Ching,' the Tao that can be told is not the Eternal Tao. The name that can be spoken is not the Eternal Name.'

For instance...can you tell me any real significant differnce from a Judo hip throw and say an Aikido hip throw? How about a Shotokan straight punch vs. a Kempo straight punch? Even better, is there any real difference between a Shaolin Kung Fu side kick and a Karate side kick? Not Really. Even within all of the Tai Chi Chuan styles they all pretty much do the same form. The postures may be 'large or small frame' but all Tai Chi styles have the Single/Double whip, Peng-lu-chi-an (grasp sparrows tail) and such. The core principles may vary but its all tai chi. In yang style in particular there are several versions of the 'traditional' form. The number of the classical postures really depends on how they are counted. Ive seen the 85, 105,108,and 150 posture forms and guess what...THEY ARE ALL THE SAME FORM. LOL.
Ive even watched a Wudang Tai Chi form on youtube and other than the fact that the guy was an authentic Wudang Martial Artist the posutres were the same order and fundamentally executed the same.
After a few years of this one begins to wonder what is real and what is not and what all the hype is about. Then the concept of the 'Master Key' as explained in the essay makes sense.
On the same note...as I have been practicing a lineage form of Wing Chun Kung Fu for the past 2 years...I have found that the Plumtree blocking and the 10 Point are very similar in posture and exectution as the Sil Lum Tao beginning form in Wing Chun. So my understanding of Wing chun snowballed because of this. Master key at work? Maybe , maybe not. Just some stuff to think about.
I remember a clip from the movie, 'Ghost Dog:Way of the Samurai' with Forrest Whitaker and he quoted the Hagakure,' when one comes to a deep understanding of his way then he will also learn to appreciate and understand the virtue of ALL ways.'

So the Master key is not a unique concept.

 

[marlon]

I read the article again...a few times. My take on it, is that since the author speaks of something that makes taiji specifically different from other martial arts, and that the master key is not about rerlaxation, or the ten essences, i will say that the master key is the transformative qualities of taiji. That taiji is about evolving ones being. that the master key is the philisophy of tao and taiji is primarily about growth as a being and the security of self defense and longevity are necessary for that goal. so any time one practices and trains with the goal of growth as a being based on the principles of the tao then it is taiji...in a sense...then one possesses the key that will unlock the greater depths of the art. The artcle speaks of certain specifics that lead me to think that we are not only speaking of the form...(grasp the sparrow's tail and the like) nor is he speaking of the principles of movement as in the ten essences but rather something else "that if one were to hear it one would laugh". Not everything is tai chi chuan but everything can be taiji

my little thoughts

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[MeatWad2]

I study Taiji and Kempo. I have found that Chen style works best with it. It has a lot of hidden applications in the movements that are complimentary to Kempo

 

[Xue Sheng]

I study Taiji and Kempo. I have found that Chen style works best with it. It has a lot of hidden applications in the movements that are complimentary to Kempo

Not surprised, jin gang dao duì all by itself has about 8 different applications, all fairly nasty. But then all Taiji styles individual postures tend to have multiple applications.