Just Stand Up
- Thread starter Gyakuto
- Start date
Oily Dragon
Senior Master
"But what they don't know, is that I am...a weapon".
My mantra.
That was one of the funniest MA videos I've ever seen. Master Ken level.
OP
OP
Gyakuto
Senior Master
Oily Dragon
Senior Master
My favorite part is when he steals the woman's baby in the park and pulls guard on it.Yes I think it was made with tongue firmly in cheek!
Or was it…
A few thoughts ...
Jesse always knows how to start out with a clickbait premise, tell an amusing story, convey some actual good information, and stay respectful towards any arts he covers in the process.
"Just standing up" from the ground in a fight is an important skill which takes lots of practice against any kind of skilled grappler. The little training montage he showed with his brother is just the tip of the iceberg. In my opinion, most BJJ schools don't spend as much time as they should on this aspect of training, although I think that may be improving as more and more wrestling is incorporated into the art.
That training montage turned out to be irrelevant in Jesse's actual tournament match, since his opponent couldn't take him down and had to resort to pulling guard.
I'm quite sure that Jesse was already aware that stalling and refusing to engage will lead to warning, penalties, or disqualification in a BJJ match. He did so in the beginning just to make a point for the story in his video.
Stalling/refusing to engage/playing purely defensively will lead to penalties in most combat sports, including wrestling, Judo, and Sambo. The way Jesse started out just trying to break grips and not engage while standing would also have gotten him penalized in Judo. The difference between competition BJJ and those aforementioned 3 sports is that in wrestling, Judo & Sambo, if you want to play on the ground you have to earn it with a takedown, whereas in sport BJJ you can just pull guard and your opponent still has to engage with you. For this reason, many pure sport BJJ players have relatively weak takedown games, especially at the lower belt ranks.
Speaking of lower ranks, I am entirely unsurprised that a BJJ white belt couldn't take Jesse down, especially while he was playing pure defense. Jesse is a very experienced martial artist with more grappling knowledge than he normally lets on. Case in point - the fact that once he did finally engage his opponent, he was able to pass his opponent's guard, get mount, and finish with a choke. Jesse may be a white belt in BJJ, but he's not a brand new white belt.
From my perspective, Jesse wasn't trying to bash BJJ. He was suggesting that modern sport BJJ with an exclusive focus on ground grappling runs the same risk as point Karate in separating the art from its original martial intent. I would agree to a certain extent, but only for those who train exclusively for that particular sporting context and neglect the rest of the art. For those who do train the entire art (BJJ, Karate, or whatever else), then the sport offers numerous benefits for the martial aspect of the art.
Jesse always knows how to start out with a clickbait premise, tell an amusing story, convey some actual good information, and stay respectful towards any arts he covers in the process.
"Just standing up" from the ground in a fight is an important skill which takes lots of practice against any kind of skilled grappler. The little training montage he showed with his brother is just the tip of the iceberg. In my opinion, most BJJ schools don't spend as much time as they should on this aspect of training, although I think that may be improving as more and more wrestling is incorporated into the art.
That training montage turned out to be irrelevant in Jesse's actual tournament match, since his opponent couldn't take him down and had to resort to pulling guard.
I'm quite sure that Jesse was already aware that stalling and refusing to engage will lead to warning, penalties, or disqualification in a BJJ match. He did so in the beginning just to make a point for the story in his video.
Stalling/refusing to engage/playing purely defensively will lead to penalties in most combat sports, including wrestling, Judo, and Sambo. The way Jesse started out just trying to break grips and not engage while standing would also have gotten him penalized in Judo. The difference between competition BJJ and those aforementioned 3 sports is that in wrestling, Judo & Sambo, if you want to play on the ground you have to earn it with a takedown, whereas in sport BJJ you can just pull guard and your opponent still has to engage with you. For this reason, many pure sport BJJ players have relatively weak takedown games, especially at the lower belt ranks.
Speaking of lower ranks, I am entirely unsurprised that a BJJ white belt couldn't take Jesse down, especially while he was playing pure defense. Jesse is a very experienced martial artist with more grappling knowledge than he normally lets on. Case in point - the fact that once he did finally engage his opponent, he was able to pass his opponent's guard, get mount, and finish with a choke. Jesse may be a white belt in BJJ, but he's not a brand new white belt.
From my perspective, Jesse wasn't trying to bash BJJ. He was suggesting that modern sport BJJ with an exclusive focus on ground grappling runs the same risk as point Karate in separating the art from its original martial intent. I would agree to a certain extent, but only for those who train exclusively for that particular sporting context and neglect the rest of the art. For those who do train the entire art (BJJ, Karate, or whatever else), then the sport offers numerous benefits for the martial aspect of the art.
Decided to give the video a shot. First thirty seconds he's comparing training to groundfight with training to get KO'd. He is more than experienced enough to know how disingenuous that is.
He also refers to an opponent as "just" a brown belt, and then refers to an ezekiel choke saying that the brown belt got him, but now he can easily avoid it...leaving out that it's a choke basically known as an easy to get move that can be prevented when spotted, as long as you're taught it. Which just tells me that he chose to film that partiuclar bit on purpose. And has training in BJJ (which you have to if you want to "not play BJJ")
He makes it sound like he trained for a day in BJJ before the tournament, which is definitely not the case.
He enters a white belt tournament in an art that notoriously has a high skill curve. The person in the first video doesn't know how (or wasn't expecting) to pull guard against a resisting opponent, and was slow in getting his hooks in, allowing Jesse to stay standing/stand back up..which would only work against a white belt. He's actively twisting away and walking away from his opponent. Obviously he broke a rule, I'd be shocked if he doesn't know this.
Random potshot at the karate guy that won because his opponent was DQ'ed. Which I don't agree with, but there was no reason for that besides causing controversy/comments.
There's good reason to not allow ankle locks for beginners, which I'm sure he knows the danger if he knows how to do a leg lock, and he should read the rules before joining a tournament.
The way he gets that mount and choke looks like a high blue/low purple belt playing with a white belt. Not someone at the right skill level for this tournament.
"If he would've just stood up, that would've never happened". Except, that's what this guy is training for, and I'm pretty sure you could beat him standing too, so there's no real point to be made there.
And like drop bear said, people paid good money for the training these comps give. And he's kinda just shitting on it for his clickbait video. If he was going to do this, at least do it at the skill level he's at, and give them an actual bout after he made his point, rather than noob-stomp (though I'm guessing he did it this way because he couldn't make the same point against blue belts or above).
Honestly pretty disgusted with this and lost any respect I had for him with this one video.
He also refers to an opponent as "just" a brown belt, and then refers to an ezekiel choke saying that the brown belt got him, but now he can easily avoid it...leaving out that it's a choke basically known as an easy to get move that can be prevented when spotted, as long as you're taught it. Which just tells me that he chose to film that partiuclar bit on purpose. And has training in BJJ (which you have to if you want to "not play BJJ")
He makes it sound like he trained for a day in BJJ before the tournament, which is definitely not the case.
He enters a white belt tournament in an art that notoriously has a high skill curve. The person in the first video doesn't know how (or wasn't expecting) to pull guard against a resisting opponent, and was slow in getting his hooks in, allowing Jesse to stay standing/stand back up..which would only work against a white belt. He's actively twisting away and walking away from his opponent. Obviously he broke a rule, I'd be shocked if he doesn't know this.
Random potshot at the karate guy that won because his opponent was DQ'ed. Which I don't agree with, but there was no reason for that besides causing controversy/comments.
There's good reason to not allow ankle locks for beginners, which I'm sure he knows the danger if he knows how to do a leg lock, and he should read the rules before joining a tournament.
The way he gets that mount and choke looks like a high blue/low purple belt playing with a white belt. Not someone at the right skill level for this tournament.
"If he would've just stood up, that would've never happened". Except, that's what this guy is training for, and I'm pretty sure you could beat him standing too, so there's no real point to be made there.
And like drop bear said, people paid good money for the training these comps give. And he's kinda just shitting on it for his clickbait video. If he was going to do this, at least do it at the skill level he's at, and give them an actual bout after he made his point, rather than noob-stomp (though I'm guessing he did it this way because he couldn't make the same point against blue belts or above).
Honestly pretty disgusted with this and lost any respect I had for him with this one video.
I don't think he was taking a potshot at the guy who got knocked out. I think he was taking a potshot at the rules which gave that guy the championship for being knocked out. In other words, he was saying that his own art (Karate) is just as guilty as BJJ of having competition rulesets which detract from combative reality.
I read it as both comparing/complaining about the competition format, but moreso mocking that person/bout. If the rest of his video had a different tone, I'd probably view it the same way you do.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
There has been D.Q losses via knock-out at all levels of competition.
The comparison is a tricky one to make. Unless they have a better option.
The issue with the particular DQ victory in that Karate Olympic gold medal match was that the guy who got disqualified didn’t (IMO) do anything wrong. I don’t believe he was using excessive force. His opponent ducked into the kick and that’s what caused the knockout.
