Just Good Ol' Fashion Common Courtesy or Is It Common

[Nicholas82555]

WC from what I have read and gathered in general has a serious attitude problem "in general". In general karate, judo, jiu jitsu all have a solid respect for other styles in the system and very rarely will you find them berating other teachers.

Lets live the arts out of it. It strikes to the core of the person. No matter how much cologne u spray on a pig, a pig is still a pig. It's like the leopard who can't hide his spots.

If you want respect u must first have to show respect.

I don't play politics. Lets deal with the subject at hand and train. I won't train at a school if they're no better than a 2 year old brat.

Character is paramount I don't care who you are.

 

[mograph]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People

 

[zepedawingchun]

WC from what I have read and gathered in general has a serious attitude problem "in general". In general karate, judo, jiu jitsu all have a solid respect for other styles in the system and very rarely will you find them berating other teachers.

I have to disagree with that statement. WC practitioners are not the only group with attitudes. I have found just as many Karate, Tae Kwon Do, BBJ, Judo (etc.) senseis or sifus with just as much an attitude as WC sifus. It's the people, not the art, who are the problem.

The martial arts in general, attracts some strange individuals. Now I'm not saying everyone on the forum is strange, but if you've been an instructor in the arts for some time, you know what I mean. A lot of the time, sifus and senseis have the attitude to attract business. You have to be confident and sure about the art that you teach, otherwise, people will not join your class, and go to some other school, dojo, kwoon, whatever you call it. Many people lack confidence and that is why they train in the arts. So when they see someone with an attitude, and trhey are confident about what they teach, it proves to them they can gain confidence in training the art an instructor is talking or gloading about.

And then for some people, the ability to kick *** goes to their head. Then there comes the attitude. They forget being a martial artist is about learning about yourself and others, helping others, and trying to be the best human being you can be.

 

[Boozmork]

I started reading some Confucian texts when I began Wing Chun (I heard it would help and I'm a reader so I gave it a go).
Theres a lot in there about treating others how you expect to be treated yourself, especially in the Chung Yung. Remaining calm and humble seems to be a tenent of most eastern philosophies though. I think it's useful to read the philosophy and history that may have influenced the martial art and it has helped me a lot.

But also I don't think you can profile people in such a way. There will be an equal amount of idiots spread across all martial arts. Some people just don't respect people but most do

 

[Nicholas82555]

Enough said, based on individual experiences there's no wrong or right answer just personal observations. My experience with attitudes were basically based on learning the arts oversees but in the states it's a whole new ball game the way it's all presented.

To crossover from Confucius to the Bible...one of my favorite scriptures Proverbs 18:24....If u want to gain friends, u must 1st show urself to be friendly)

 

[KamonGuy2]

Enough said, based on individual experiences there's no wrong or right answer just personal observations. My experience with attitudes were basically based on learning the arts oversees but in the states it's a whole new ball game the way it's all presented.

To crossover from Confucius to the Bible...one of my favorite scriptures Proverbs 18:24....If u want to gain friends, u must 1st show urself to be friendly)

Sadly, most of what you have said is incorrect. Every martial art school I have been in has had issues with other schools or even issues with students. Karate, which is the most disciplined art I have trained in has had a lot of politics. If you look on the internet about Steve Arneil, you will find many websites criticizing him and his teaching methods. I actually trained under him when I was a kid and had no problems, but apparently he upset a lot of people

It is rife in UFC with all the trash talk, and whilst I know it is often played up for the cameras, there are genuine politics within the MMA world

Wing chun does have its politics, but many schools dont. I dont like certain instructors, just because they have treated students badly or make outrageous claims. Yet this is more about the person, than the school. As I have said on another topic, if a student from another wing chun school wanted to come down and train with us, it wouldnt be a problem

Nicholas82555 - I think you need to get to a few more schools before you start criticizing an entire art. Politics exists everywhere. Disagreements happen. Certain people will just never get on. You cant fix it by coming onto a forum and demanding that people stop it

 

[geezer]

Wing chun does have its politics, but many schools dont. I dont like certain instructors, just because they have treated students badly or make outrageous claims. Yet this is more about the person, than the school. As I have said on another topic, if a student from another wing chun school wanted to come down and train with us, it wouldnt be a problem

Nicholas82555 - I think you need to get to a few more schools before you start criticizing an entire art. Politics exists everywhere. Disagreements happen. Certain people will just never get on. You cant fix it by coming onto a forum and demanding that people stop it

While I agree with Kamon Guy, I have to admit that in any organization, there is a corporate-culture that is generated by the leadership. And sometimes this culture can be arrogant and opinionated. That was certainly true in the WT I studied for many years. I now train with another branch of that lineage, but using the "VT" spelling as originally used by GM Yip Man. Our current leadership is far more open and generous... but we have many of the old people with us. They are great guys, good friends, and dedicated martial artists. But from time to time, a bit of the old attitude surfaces. I notice it, because I'm the only member of the old guard who also trains and teaches another art, Eskrima. And some of my Eskrima brothers have trained WC (a different lineage). And they are good. So sometimes I pick up a bit of resentment... from both sides. Hey, people are only human. We all have our pride. You've got to be a little proud and stubborn, or you won't be much of a martial artist, right. Don't let it bug you, Nick.

 

[Nicholas82555]

I'm not criticizing an entire art. How can "I" criticize when all I see and have heard who are WCners criticizing the art. I think u have it backwards. I'm the one whose entering WC and from what I C hear read. The cue is from alot of the participates on the site. That how I drew my conclusion BUT it doesn't stop me. U R the one feeding my the knowledge before hand whether it's true or not.

Thank Kamon....it doesn't bother me at all. I'm ready to go))

 

[matsu]

this is all still an ego thing!, for me it seems that wing chun is still a younger MA/style/art and there are so many factions trying to outdo or outprove the other.

i,m sure karate/tan soo do/tkd/judo/bjj vs jujitsu all had the same many factions fight-talkng their way to supremecy.its jsut they have a longer history to get over themselves??

but i agree with just some common respect that if someone does something differently for you but it works for them then we should be able to accept it, wether within the wingchun umbrella or any MA.
-
based on my experience i dont think sport karate is "that" effective for self defence but dammmmmmm it looks good and i love watching it and have huge respect for their abilities and a few guys i certainly wouldnt mess with-( but that is more the person rather than the art!)

we had a lesson in respect last nite when "slow" sparring - having the respect to "feed" techniques to each other rather than "win" every move!!!!
one guy didnt get the lesson so went away bruised for his efforts!

politics is just ******** wether in a MA situation or infact real life- all half truths concealments and deflection to make you look better than the opposition. if theres was honesty we would be able to make some real decisions.
perhaps the secrecy that wing chun has used over the enturies is still biting the art in the **** and it will take(excuse if any offense) a western approach to sharing an art that will make it less so. and we can combine all the factions to develop one single way of looking at the art. we will still all apply it differently, as any boxer/karetaka would apply his gakzuki or jab/cross.
blimey didnt mean to rant- had bad week lol.
matsu

 

[KamonGuy2]

I'm not criticizing an entire art. How can "I" criticize when all I see and have heard who are WCners criticizing the art. I think u have it backwards. I'm the one whose entering WC and from what I C hear read. The cue is from alot of the participates on the site. That how I drew my conclusion BUT it doesn't stop me. U R the one feeding my the knowledge before hand whether it's true or not.

Thank Kamon....it doesn't bother me at all. I'm ready to go))

What I was complaining about was the fact that you came on here and generalized Wing Chun. It would be like me saying TKD sucks. My experience in every TKD school Ive been to is that it is rubbish. Yet, I still wouldnt generalize the whole of the art

You generalized WC in the following statement - "WC from what I have read and gathered in general has a serious attitude problem "in general"."

My point is that how you can say in "general" when you havent even started in WC? Even on these types of forums, the bashers are very few in number and usually the same people.

My experience has been the opposite. I enjoy reading very positive and very productive chat between chunners on these kind of forums

Sadly there have been a few teachers (and even more sadly they have been at grandmaster level) who have come out with outrageous claims and have therefore suffered. Claims such as 'wing chun is too deadly for the cage', 'wing chunners cannot be taken to the ground', 'wing chun is a complete system' etc. Luckily this is only a handful, but due to their stature, other MA guys take it as gospel.

Most of the Sifus I have had the pleasure of training with and training under were extremely friendly. James Sinclair welcomed me when I attended the Wan Kam Leung seminar a couple of years ago.

In comparison, I had members (including the head of the federation) of 'Fighting Fit' turn up at my class (about 5 years ago) and stand outside my class looking for a fight. When they realised how approachable we are they backed down and stated that they had heard WC was very defensive of their secrets etc. Lesson is, never generalize, or you will be caught off guard

 

[Nicholas82555]

If I don't see then all I have is "general" comments to go by until "I see"....That's not from me but the majority on this WC subject.

 

[Nicholas82555]

I called it like alot of you put it out there....I'm not the one doing the internal bashing...I'm looking for sound advice and direction. I know nothing about William Cheung or LT and their personality but the experts out there are the one's doing the orchestrating........................................

So you had a bad experience with WC or LT............now u air it...........what is the uninitiated is suppose to think. People want to make a point to the point of blasting it all over the internet..............Is that the way to make peace????? I was always told if u don't have anything good to say to someone, don't say it at all.....It works for me.

 

[mook jong man]

Forget all the ******** talk mate , just hurry up and start training.

IF YOU DON'T HURRY UP I'M GOING TO JUMP ON A PLANE AND GO OVER THERE AND START TRAINING YOU MYSELF.

Seriously , forget all the lineage politics crap and just start training.

 

[Nicholas82555]

Now u've got me laughing. I'm going to remember u and let u know how the training's going..........bet that)))

No talk....just train.............got cha.

 

[dungeonworks]

Firstly, let me say that it is easy to draw your conclusion based on internet forums and websites. I myself have come upon the same conclusion at one point.

The only place I have ran into attitude pertaining to Wing Chun/Ving Tsun/Wing Tsun (and especially JKD) has been entirely internet based banter. I have yet to meet in person a Chunner of any flavor with attitude or blatant disrespect. I have met such people in Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and especially in MMA events and gyms. The BIG DIFFERENCE is that the circles I run really have Chunner's in the majority.

My point? You will find people like this in EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY MARTIAL ART BE IT TRADITIONAL, ECLECTIC, OR MMA!!! You will run across a$$ holes anywhere....grocery store, local bar, your kids schools...ect. None is a place more polarizing than the internet and internet forums, both Martial Arts and non Martial Arts related. Martial Talk has found a great medium in this respect. Blow hards seem to be wisked away quite soundly and quickly...which is why I like this over ANY forum on Martial Arts and no longer visit any of the others.

 

[dungeonworks]

Firstly, let me say that it is easy to draw your conclusion based on internet forums and websites. I myself have come upon the same conclusion at one point.

The only place I have ran into attitude pertaining to Wing Chun/Ving Tsun/Wing Tsun (and especially JKD) has been entirely internet based banter. I have yet to meet in person a Chunner of any flavor with attitude or blatant disrespect. I have met such people in Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and especially in MMA events and gyms. The BIG DIFFERENCE is that the circles I run really have Chunner's in the majority.

My point? You will find people like this in EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY MARTIAL ART BE IT TRADITIONAL, ECLECTIC, OR MMA!!! You will run across a$$ holes anywhere....grocery store, local bar, your kids schools...ect. None is a place more polarizing than the internet and internet forums, both Martial Arts and non Martial Arts related. Martial Talk has found a great medium in this respect. Blow hards seem to be wisked away quite soundly and quickly...which is why I like this over ANY forum on Martial Arts and no longer visit any of the others.

Red bold type should have said minority!!!

 

[chinaboxer]

wing chun/ving tsun sucks..study a real martial art like MMA! *flexes his tattooed arms