Juko-Kai Ninjutsu?

[Cryozombie]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
You will also be unhappy to know they claim a "Ninpo Division" now too.
http://jukokai.com/

Ok, so I was recently informed that Juko-kai claims to have a

"formal Ninpo division under the sanction of Masaaki Hatsumi, 34th Generation Soke to Togakure-ryu Ninjutsu in Japan"

Thats a direct quote from their site, Does anyone know if this is true?

Also they claim that Juko-kai ninpo is only open to current ranking bujinkan members...

 

[Jay Bell]

"formal Ninpo division under the sanction of Masaaki Hatsumi, 34th Generation Soke to Togakure-ryu Ninjutsu in Japan"

Absolute lie. Roddy boy was given an honorary Judan by Hatsumi sensei...under request of a Judan from Canada...who is also a member of the Juko-kai. The "Juko kai Ninjutsu" created by this member is *not* part of the Bujinkan, nor sanctioned by Hatsumi sensei.

Yet...another time that the Juko Kai twists truths around to gain credibility. The Bujinkan has no formal ties with Juko-kai.

 

[Dennis_Mahon]

What Jay said.

This was beaten to death over at E-Budo last year; Rod is exploiting a gift granted him by Hatsumi-sensei.

 

[bujinclergy]

Originally posted by Technopunk
Ok, so I was recently informed that Juko-kai claims to have a

"formal Ninpo division under the sanction of Masaaki Hatsumi, 34th Generation Soke to Togakure-ryu Ninjutsu in Japan"

Thats a direct quote from their site, Does anyone know if this is true?

Also they claim that Juko-kai ninpo is only open to current ranking bujinkan members...

It's true. A lot of Juko-Kai folks are training in Bujinkan....
Some have been in it for many years.
Sacharnoski Sensei has both Honorary Rank as well as regular rank in it.
Pisses a lot of people off but it's still true...

 

[Dennis_Mahon]

Sacharnoski Sensei has both Honorary Rank as well as regular rank in it.

Prove it.

When and how did Sacharnoski aquire an "actual" rank in the Bujinkan, and what rank was he given?

Until proof is rendered, it isn't so.

 

[Matt Stone]

Just hearing about Dr. Rod and having the word "sensei" attached to his name makes my stomach churn... He is what happens to the MA community when people are not held accountable for ranks attained and training attended.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[bujinclergy]

Prove it.

When and how did Sacharnoski aquire an "actual" rank in the Bujinkan, and what rank was he given?

Until proof is rendered, it isn't so.
[/B]

E-Mail John Willson private :
koi@cnwl.igs.net
Ask him if Sacharnoski Sensei is a member of Shidoshi Kai in Bujinkan and he will tell you yes he is.

 

[Deaf]

I have heard that John Wilson (shidoshi in Canada) did award Sacharnoski a dan rank in Bujinkan. Which dan rank, I do not know for sure. Which in and of itself is nothing. Considering John Wilson's reputation that I have heard about.

It is kind of funny...a man is given a "HONORARY" rank out of kindness. What does this man do? Exploit the hell out of it and show nothing but blantant disrespect towards the art by monopolizing on the honorary rank and people's "ignorance" about what the art truly is. Amazing what greed and an inflated ego can do to someone!

Originally posted by bujinclergy
E-Mail John Willson private :
koi@cnwl.igs.net
Ask him if Sacharnoski Sensei is a member of Shidoshi Kai in Bujinkan and he will tell you yes he is.

 

[Bujingodai]

From many circles I have heard the Judan is honourary and the Sandan was granted by Wilson Sensei as legit.
He has the right to do so. Unfortunatly I wonder of what Rod S will do with things.

 

[Deaf]

yes the judan is honourary and I know that Wilson HAS awarded Sacharnoski a legitimate dan rank. I'm not saying that Wilson doesn't have any right not handing rank out. I just question his motives and intelligence in doing so.

Why would Sacharnoski need a dan rank when he has an honourary judan? Try to make himself look more legitimate? Give me a break! The guy is a black belt black hole! He has more ranks that are NOT humanly possible to really have! I don't question his skill as a martial artist since I am sure he has some but to be such high rank dan in various styles is a JOKE and how can anyone take that seriously!

Unfortunatly I wonder of what Rod S will do with things.

Wonder? Read the first post to this thread. He is making false claims and taking advantage of an honourary "GIFT" given to him.

~Deaf~

 

[Bujingodai]

So out of interest sake, has there been any new developments. Has Roddy claimed a new grade or has anyone really verified what his non-honourary grade is?

 

[bujinclergy]

Hey Dave,
If you want to find out just ask on :
http://www.yamamizuryu.org/bujinkanobb/phpBB2/index.php

John Willson is on that board and so is a lot of other folks that cross train.

Make sure you use the variance of Sacharnoski Sensei's first name too!
I'm sure it'll go over real well:shrug:

Oh;
In reference to "deaf"
since your handle left out the second half... I'll help you out.

Sacharnoski Sensei is Shidoshikai so he can reccomend promotions if he chooses. If people want proof then you can go to a clinic of his or his home and ask to see his Shidoshikai card. Thats probably the only way he is going to waste his time with any of you.

 

[Bujingodai]

Kent,
I am well aware of some of the relations that Rod has with the Kan. I was only asking of the exact issue at hand. I have never met, trained or anything of the like with the Juko Kai. But the whole thing is confusing. Don't worry I won't use Roddy, as maybe someone will be mad at me right?
I am not too concerned with their problems, only wanted an answer.
You must admit the whole issue is very unresolved. Not that it is anyones business. But it is really when paying to belong to an org, the membership #'s and ranks are a public thing. IMO

 

[bujinclergy]

You must admit the whole issue is very unresolved. Not that it is anyones business. But it is really when paying to belong to an org, the membership #'s and ranks are a public thing.

The issue never needed to be resolved. It is no-ones buisness except for the folks who wish to train via that route. All membership organization fees for Bujinkan training go to Hatsumi Sensei and if a person does not recieve their rank credentials signed by Hatsumi Sensei then they are not valid credentials. All ranks that are earned are filed through the appropriate channels and is returned from Japan and distributed at the clinics.

and yes, using anything other than a persons appropriate name is just plain disrespectful. How you behave directly reflects on your teacher and how you are taught to behave. (Or that you defy your teachers wishes)
Bad heart is a bad heart-period.

 

[Bujingodai]

Well like I stated it was IMO, right?

So then not that it is my business, what rank has he made it to? Other than the honourary Judan.

All the ranks that he has attained in his career, I suppose it does make sense that they are concurrently awarded due to similar ciriculum then. It does stand to reason to a degree. It is just suspect when one has THAT many degrees and ranks.

I am sorry to offend about the shidoshi kai. I do know that it is between him and Wilson Shihan.
However others have been called on theirs before. Mine will be too.

 

[Scooter]

Keep in mind, Wilson is one of Rod's Students as well....hmmm, can you say mutually beneficial?
I'm always a bit suspect of anyone going arround collecting rank in various arts and then creating their own "style"...but hey, that's just me.
As for what was eluded to in earlier posts about Wilson's skill, I couldn't say. I only know the little that I've seen, and I wasn't impressed. Although I can say, there are several high ranked people in the Bujinkan that question Wilson's motives since he's gotten together with the whole juko-kai thing.

 

[Bujingodai]

I have no idea of Johns skill, have never seen him. I have seen another of his students and he was pretty good, amazing actually. However you do raise the point about motives and Shihans among other high ranks. For the most legit Ninjutsu org on the planet the quality control really sucks. And I for one am not happy with the anarchistic approach to it. Everyone seems to reason it too.

Each dojo has a different way to grade, every dojos skill level among a Kyu or Dan differs. Almost every teacher I meet hates the next teacher or thinks they have the wrong motives. And I have seen so many high ranks that either got the grade for lax reasons or just plain suck. With nothing but excuses made for it.
:soapbox:

 

[bujinclergy]

Scooter writes:

As for what was eluded to in earlier posts about Wilson's skill, I couldn't say. I only know the little that I've seen, and I wasn't impressed.

...and out of curiosity Mr Reisinger, where did you see Willson Sensei perform and what is your experience in Martial Arts so we can value your humble opinion. Willson Sensei has been training over 40 years...

As per Bujingodai:

I have seen another of his students and he was pretty good, amazing actually.

...didn't get that way because Willson Sensei is "unimpressive"
If your speaking of Michelle Belisle (Judan Bujinkan) I can understand you comment. Michelle is "spooky good"

Each dojo has a different way to grade, every dojos skill level among a Kyu or Dan differs. Almost every teacher I meet hates the next teacher or thinks they have the wrong motives. And I have seen so many high ranks that either got the grade for lax reasons or just plain suck. With nothing but excuses made for it.

Different grading ways..different strokes for differerent folks eh?
Hateful and spiteful with wrong motives? Keep looking out there and the perfect sensei will rear their ugly head someday.
as for the rest of it...
why bother.. :shrug:
maybe I'll go Koga, might as well right? Everybody is screwed up anyway...

Sorry,
This is too stupid to be taken seriously

 

[Bujingodai]

Well I'm not Koga, just have an opinion that alot won't say.
I think that some uniformity is good for a school.

The instructor I saw was Mike Pimblett. I have been enjoying some of the readings from him on your other board too.
His students were vicious. Great.

That is all the experience I have had with the Wilson schools.

I am lucky to have had some really good Booj instructors though. I learned under Frank Hill for a few, he moves like water. I look forward to moving back to the city so I can study under him again.

Right now I study under Pierre Benoit. I must say he is changing my mind on sublties (sp)

But I also learn under a non Buj teacher who has equally taught me lots.
So I stay pretty open minded.

Sorry for my personal ramble.:shrug:

 

[bushi jon]

Hey if I am not mistaken wasnt Shihan Wilson just awarded a 13 Dan by Hatsumi Sensi. I believe that would make him one of the highest ranked person outside of Japan. Why would any other person question his ability if the man himself(Hatsumi)awarded his rank.:asian: I have seen both people that are in question here and I would bet that they both could hold there own. I think people forget that even the greats MAs of are time where just human at best. People can say what they want about Sacraknowskis Sensi and Wilson Sensi but what it all boils down to they are both good at what they do and they will always have people sniping at them.

Kent tell Lonnie I said Hi