Juko-Kai Ninjutsu?

[r.severe]

Donny,
LOL...
Now you know those post and e-mails were twisted and rewritten as well as jokes and replies to jokes from others.

Knowing this as you well do know that these were jokes and rewritten - twisted... Hey you most likely rewritten a few yourself Donny..LOL.. be honest.. You shouldn't take those as fact in your search for how to escape your fantasy you are saying is reality.

Come on.. get real.

thank you,

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[Don Roley]

Donny,
LOL...
Now you know those post and e-mails were twisted and rewritten as well as jokes and replies to jokes from others.

Knowing this as you well do know that these were jokes and rewritten - twisted... Hey you most likely rewritten a few yourself Donny..LOL.. be honest.. You shouldn't take those as fact in your search for how to escape your fantasy you are saying is reality.

Come on.. get real.

thank you,

ralph severe, kamiyama

Does anyone other than Ralph understand just what the heck he is supposed to be accusing me of? I gave links to what he said, you can all see the context in which he made them, etc. So how the heck am I supposed to have "twisted" and "rewritten" what he said? I do not even know what e-mails he is reffering to.

To me, it just sounds like his typical illogical self trying to bluff over serious problems. But can anyone else perhaps make sense of what he is babbling about?

 

[r.severe]

Donny,
Why not give it a break.
Get back to something meaningful?

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[Don Roley]

Donny,
Why not give it a break.
Get back to something meaningful?

ralph severe, kamiyama

So, you can't make a clear statement?

I was doing something meaningful. I had told people about Rod S having his honorary rank and shidoshikai membership revoked. Then you started in saying that we should not talk about such things and you refuse to make a meaningful explination as to why.

Par for the course with the paper mountain.

 

[r.severe]

Donny,
Why are you so immature and hateful?
What drives you to be so immature and hateful?
What is it about your own heart that troubles you so much you fester such hate?

For someone who confess such Japanese training with the gods and have so much info on history.. you sure are immature and hateful...
If this is what Japan training does for the heart... count me out.. no thanks.

You just have NO reason or knowledge to back up your on-going hateful statements... towards any other human being.

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[Don Roley]

Ralph,
If you are going ot be so disruptive, maybe you want to go elsewhere. You can not get away with your typical behavior here.

We were discussing the fact that Rod S had his honorary judan revoked and his right to teach Bujinkan taken away. Then you came in and tried to shut us up by saying it was not honorable. But when asked for reasons why, you turn disruptive and start attacking others. I still do not understand the statement, "But the problem with what you state is I do not train in fantasy kobujutsu or have that mindset to understand your post." or what it has to do with the subject at hand.

So just stop the disruptions. We will discuss all the problems with the Juko-kai if we want and there is nothing you can do to shut us up.

 

[r.severe]

So ?

Donny have I said anything to trouble you ?

What are you really up to?
What are you hiding behind those twisted post?
What's your agenda Donny?

Hey...
Your seem to be such a hateful person Donny.
You seem to be really unhappy and out to be disrespectful towards who ever you dislike.

What's the basic problem Donny in your life that is causing these problems?

Maybe the same problems ron s. has... ?

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[Don Roley]

Thank you for the laugh Ralph. Your behavior always brings a smile to my lips.

But if you are through trying to disrupt, distract and attack, could you think about giving a logical explination as to why Jeff Velten and I are not honorable for letting people know about the Status of Rod S, while you seem free to act the way you do?

I would really like to see you provide an argument that is consistent in its logic as to why you can do what you have done, but we should not do what we have done. It would probably bring me an even larger smile.

So please, try to explain why we should not talk about Rod S and how his honorary rank has been revoked, but you can attack, make fun of and threaten people like you do.

Oh, and why the heck are you still calling him "Ron" instead of "Rod"?

 

[Don Roley]

Here is something I think everyone should see.

http://jukokai.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Apage&file=index&rpage=8

More specifically, this quote should raise some eyebrows.

Sacharnoski Soke has headed the Juko-Kai Okuden division for many years teaching the stealthy arts as he learned them throughout his martial arts career.**As many of you may know, Hatsumi Soke recently honored him and his accomplishments with a high grading from the Bujinkan.**

Actually, those that think of Rod Sacharnoski as a lying fraud wil not be surprised. But all those folks like Kent who say that he is somehow being honest will have toruble explaining how the word "honorary" seems to have been dropped from the description and has not been corrected despite all the time he has had to correct it.

And the mention of stealthy training he has recieved throughout his career makes me want to fall off my chair laughing. I assume he must be talking about his links with those fake Koga guys.

 

[Jeff Boler]

Here is something I think everyone should see.

http://jukokai.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Apage&file=index&rpage=8

More specifically, this quote should raise some eyebrows.



Actually, those that think of Rod Sacharnoski as a lying fraud wil not be surprised. But all those folks like Kent who say that he is somehow being honest will have toruble explaining how the word "honorary" seems to have been dropped from the description and has not been corrected despite all the time he has had to correct it.

And the mention of stealthy training he has recieved throughout his career makes me want to fall off my chair laughing. I assume he must be talking about his links with those fake Koga guys.

Rod has claimed "Okuden" training for sometime. Now what that actually is, is anybody's guess. My understanding is that is some form of Okinawan training, perhaps part of his "Toide" training. Who knows, who cares.

It's my opinion that Rod was only seeking recognition from the Bujinkan to legitimize himself as "Koryu." (Which is funny, because even the Bujinkan has had trouble doing that. But that's another post.) One of the statements that Rod had so much trouble with during the first trial, was that "No known legitimate Japanese Koryu association ever recognized Juko Kai." In the court documents, he used the "Bujinkan", or actually, "Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu" in an attempt at debunking this statement.

What I really wish would happen is that Rod would just admit his wrong doings, and move on. I dare say that the rank and file Juko Kai membership would still stay with him. Heck, maybe even Hatsumi himself would re-issue that Shidoshikai license. But he refuses to do that, regardless of the vast amounts of information there is about him.

It's sad really. :redcaptur

 

[Cthulhu]

Warning

Keep the conversation polite and respectful.

Cthulhu
-MT Admin.-

 

[Don Roley]

It's my opinion that Rod was only seeking recognition from the Bujinkan to legitimize himself as "Koryu." (Which is funny, because even the Bujinkan has had trouble doing that. But that's another post.) One of the statements that Rod had so much trouble with during the first trial, was that "No known legitimate Japanese Koryu association ever recognized Juko Kai." In the court documents, he used the "Bujinkan", or actually, "Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu" in an attempt at debunking this statement.

The thing is, the Bujinkan is not a koryu orginization like the ones that orginize events at Meiji shrine. The guys that put on the demos there are not koryu orginizations. They are schools. The Bujinkan is a school. It is not an orginization that looks at records and claims and determines if they are koryu or not. And THAT is what is meant by a Japanese Koryu Association.

And Hatsumi never recognized the Juko-kai. He gave Rod S an honorary rank, and Wilson promoted him to 2nd dan- just high enough so that with a shidoshiho liscense he could promote people to black belt himself. So his attempts to use the Bujinkan name were fraudulant. Is anyone surprised?

What I really wish would happen is that Rod would just admit his wrong doings, and move on. I dare say that the rank and file Juko Kai membership would still stay with him. Heck, maybe even Hatsumi himself would re-issue that Shidoshikai license.

I do not think that Hatsumi will ever do that. I can't really say much, but based on stories I have heard, it looks like the chances of Rod getting back into the Bujinkan are rather slim to none. Only one other person I know of has ever gotten back into the Bujinkan after a blow up like this. And he had to show remorse in person and have at least one Japanese teacher serve as a gurenter (I know the spelling is off- I mean someone who will take responsibility for him) for the guy. I do nto think Rod will be showing up to Japan soon. And I know at least one guy who has expressed glee at the idea of seeing the brotherhood when they say they will be here next March.

 

[Jeff Boler]

The thing is, the Bujinkan is not a koryu orginization like the ones that orginize events at Meiji shrine. The guys that put on the demos there are not koryu orginizations. They are schools. The Bujinkan is a school. It is not an orginization that looks at records and claims and determines if they are koryu or not. And THAT is what is meant by a Japanese Koryu Association.

And Hatsumi never recognized the Juko-kai. He gave Rod S an honorary rank, and Wilson promoted him to 2nd dan- just high enough so that with a shidoshiho liscense he could promote people to black belt himself. So his attempts to use the Bujinkan name were fraudulant. Is anyone surprised?

Well of course not. To Rod, links to Japan are all that is really important. The "Bujinkan" issue is always going to be there, as long as John Willson is a member of both organizations. I think if you read the information concerning the Juko Kai Ninpo division, it has been changed to reflect the fact that John Willson heads that divison, not Rod Sacharnoski. I'm sure this is due to Hatsumi not renewing the Shidoshikai license. Otherwise, Rod's name would be all over it, because it's always, "Me, Me, Me."

I do not think that Hatsumi will ever do that. I can't really say much, but based on stories I have heard, it looks like the chances of Rod getting back into the Bujinkan are rather slim to none. Only one other person I know of has ever gotten back into the Bujinkan after a blow up like this. And he had to show remorse in person and have at least one Japanese teacher serve as a gurenter (I know the spelling is off- I mean someone who will take responsibility for him) for the guy. I do nto think Rod will be showing up to Japan soon. And I know at least one guy who has expressed glee at the idea of seeing the brotherhood when they say they will be here next March.

Can we really call this a "blow-up?" From what I have heard, it was really nothing more than a private conversation between Willson and Hatsumi. And I would think that if Rod came to the point that he simply admitted that he was wrong, and tried to make some positive change, that Hatsumi probably would let him back in, maybe with limits. You would know better than I, but I would think that such a move would be honorable enough that Hatsumi would probably consider it.

I've seen the word "Fraud" used in a couple of forums, and I think a point needs to be made here. Rod WAS NOT convicted of Fraud. He lost his case against myself and Don Cunningham for Defamation. He didn't lose that case on the merits (however he most certainly would have), but on the fact that he did not continue the case by filing the proper fees. I think through all of the documented evidence that we had, it was clear (at least to his attorney's) that this case was not going to go anywhere for him.

The other case that he lost was for Forgery and Telephone Harrassment. This case was brought on by Mr. Cunningham. According to Sacharnoski, he was not served papers properly. It basically becomes his word, against that of the process server. He is contesting the judgement, but as of right now, he lost this case too.

So he has not lost any case involving the accusation of Fraud. However, it could easily be argued that he fits the profile. According to the dictionary, a Fraud is:

A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain

It also means:

One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.

I think that if Rod simply admitted to everything, and changed all of his literature to reflect the truth, people would still stand behind him. Unfortunately, pride seems to be keeping him from it.

 

[Don Cunningham]

I wish you Bujinkan guys would get this issue clarified once and for all. I have offered again to settle my case with Rod, agreeing to drop the civil charges and judgment in return for an agreement that he and his Juko-Kai followers cease harassing me. However, Rod apparently wanted to include a statement denying any personal guilt inthe matter. In my opinion, it's because of all the stuff with the Bujinkan and his ranks.

We allowed another hearing for their reply to my motion to be delayed because Rod's attorney wanted to discuss this settlement agreement again with Rod. However, someone decided it might be funny to call my house and make more threats this Saturday morning.

Unless the Bujinkan makes it clear about Rod's status, I doubt we can ever reach any settlement agreement. I'm willing to drop my complaint, since it is just a monetary drain with no end in sight, but I am not about to sign anything stating that he is not guilty. My complaint against him was proven in court, resulting in a $50,000 judgment. Now he suggests he was not served the summons properly, not that he was uninvolved in the harassment.

Let's remember that Rod personally started this campaign of threats and intimidation. He further challenged me to check his martial arts credentials, then tried to sue me for libel and slander when my research indicated they were mostly false. He incited his supporters with deragatory comments about me and false status about the legal complaint while soliciting funds in his Juko-Kai newsletters. When his complaint was eventually thrown out of court, his supporters began harassing me. Now it seems to have started all over again.

http://e-budokai.com/jukokai/

I refuse to be intimidated by threats. Who would? But I don't care if Rod claims to be teaching Bujinkan arts or not. He's claimed a lot of things in the past.

 

[stephen]

I wish you Bujinkan guys would get this issue clarified once and for all. I have offered again to settle my case with Rod, agreeing to drop the civil charges and judgment in return for an agreement that he and his Juko-Kai followers cease harassing me. However, Rod apparently wanted to include a statement denying any personal guilt inthe matter. In my opinion, it's because of all the stuff with the Bujinkan and his ranks.

...clip...

Unless the Bujinkan makes it clear about Rod's status, I doubt we can ever reach any settlement agreement.

Waiting for the Bujinkan to "make something clear".... hmmm....ummm...hope you brought snacks.

Steve

 

[Frank Anford]

:idunno: I don't get all this stuff:idunno:
seems like Ralph Severe is the only one that has any respect for people in general.

 

[Cryozombie]

:feedtroll

 

[Don Cunningham]

To those who complain that Mr. Sacharnoski would never resort to the same tactics, I would remind you of the Robert Clarke incident. Tom Baldwin provided a British Martial Arts Commission's report on Robert Clarke. The MAC, a government-sponsored agency, investigated the claims that Rod Sacharnoski and others had made against Mr. Clarke. This 1990 report not only included a number of allegations of fraud made by Mr. Sacharnoski, but the evidence Mr. Clarke used to defend his actions.

First, the commission found no evidence to support Mr. Sacharnoski's claims his organization names or symbols are registered or trademarked in the U.K. or internationally as he alleges.

Second, there are several references to various martial arts organizations with addresses in Japan and used as letterhead which are shown to be complete fictions.

Third, it included a summary report by a special investigation committee from the European Jui-Jutsu Federation which found Mr. Sacharnoski's third dan rank and "Okinawan Jujutsu" clams to be totally false and "most likely fabricated by Mr. Sacharnoski." It refers to the "self-styled arts" of Juko-Ryu.

Finally, there are several certificates allegedly awarded to Mr. Sacharnoski. (My favorite was one in which he refers to his own title as "Supreme Grandmaster.") These are signed in English characters by several former instructors of Mr. Sacharnoski. The most interesting aspect, though, is that the Japanese stamps used to seal their names are either Mr. Sacharnoski's own name or the one he used for Juko-Kai or Juko-Ryu. In his complaint, Mr. Sacharnoski alleged that Mr. Clarke was selling diplomas with his Japanese seals. I compared the seals with those from the certificates and they are the same. I can not imagine any circumstance in which any Japanese person would sign their name and then use someone else's seal.

 

[Jeff Boler]

Interesting. Looks like the next tactic for the "collective" will be to keep their members off of the net. Considering the damage it has done, who could blame them.

http://www.bujinkancanada.com/

 

[Don Cunningham]

4. Those not upholding the guidelines of the Bujinkan, either as practitioners or as members of society, by committing disgraceful or reproachable acts shall be expelled. Until now, the Bujinkan was open to large numbers of people who came to Japan. Among them, unfortunately, were those committing violent drunken acts, the mentally ill, and trouble makers who thought only of themselves and failed to see how their actions might adversely affect others. Through their actions, such people were discarding the traditional righteous heart of the Bujinkan. From this day forward, all such people shall be expelled.

Those not upholding the above-mentioned guidelines shall be forced out of the Bujinkan.

I found these statements as part of the guidelines for participation in the Bujinkan.

If any more evidence required to prove "disgraceful or reproachable acts" than shown here is required, I can't think what that could possibly be. These are open court records, available in the public domain. Anyone is free to investigate them to confirm for themselves.

It would be really cool if they were to actually enforce their guidelines. Otherwise, it just seems like empty platitudes...