It doesn't work... Blog Post

[Xue Sheng]

It doesn't work...

 

[Hanzou]

My issue with this is that while we can all sing kumbaya and pretend that everything is equal, everything is not equal, and there's a LOT of BS out there.

I recently came across a post on reddit. It was from a woman who had been attacked and sexually assaulted, and she was looking for a martial art to learn that would help protect her. The closest schools to her were a Bjj school and an Aikido dojo. She had read the faqs and literally had no idea what to study because everything was conflicting. Reading through the reddit posts, I could only imagine her level of confusion as a person who had no idea what martial art to take. In the end, I don't know what art she ended up going with, but I shudder to think if she actually ventured into the Aikido dojo thinking that she was going to learn how to protect herself.

Aikido certainly has its uses and plusses. However, if my wife or daughter were looking for a martial art to stop a man from imposing his will on them, it wouldn't be my top choice. Especially if there is a Bjj school in the area. Is that fair to say? I definitely think so, and I think we should be more honest when people less knowledgeable than us seek advice.

 

[Xue Sheng]

My issue with this is that while we can all sing kumbaya and pretend that everything is equal, everything is not equal, and there's a LOT of BS out there.

I recently came across a post on reddit. It was from a woman who had been attacked and sexually assaulted, and she was looking for a martial art to learn that would help protect her. The closest schools to her were a Bjj school and an Aikido dojo. She had read the faqs and literally had no idea what to study because everything was conflicting. Reading through the reddit posts, I could only imagine her level of confusion as a person who had no idea what martial art to take. In the end, I don't know what art she ended up going with, but I shudder to think if she actually ventured into the Aikido dojo thinking that she was going to learn how to protect herself.

Aikido certainly has its uses and plusses. However, if my wife or daughter were looking for a martial art to stop a man from imposing his will on them, it wouldn't be my top choice. Especially if there is a Bjj school in the area. Is that fair to say? I definitely think so, and I think we should be more honest when people less knowledgeable than us seek advice.

Never said everything is equal and never sang Kumbaya...and what if they have no interest in the Martial art of "your" choice. Maybe you missed the part of the blog where I said it won't work, if don't put in the proper work. Please read more carefully in the future

 

[Hanzou]

Never said everything is equal and never sang Kumbaya...and what if they have no interest in the Martial art of "your" choice. Maybe you missed the part of the blog where I said it won't work, if don't put in the proper work. Please read more carefully in the future

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the thrust of your post that if your art "doesn't work" (or if you believe that your art doesn't work) you're not doing something right? Essentially people who venture into a style, find something wrong with it, and begin to "bash it" are doing so because they simply didn't go deeper into their system of choice. I would counter that some of us have dug deeper into our previous systems and found rather massive glaring holes in the training methodologies being offered.

Which brings us back to the case of this young woman who was seeking a martial art that would protect her from sexual assault. Given your argument, her going into an Aikido dojo would be just fine because eventually she will be able to use her Aikido effectively. However, if we're being honest with ourselves, it could take that woman years if not longer to use Aikido even at a rudimentary level (if ever). She was deciding between Aikido and Bjj, and if those people were honest and serious in that forum, they would have unanimously told her to go to the Bjj school. Unfortunately in the world of martial arts, we try to be politically correct instead of being honest and serious.

 

[jobo]

My issue with this is that while we can all sing kumbaya and pretend that everything is equal, everything is not equal, and there's a LOT of BS out there.

I recently came across a post on reddit. It was from a woman who had been attacked and sexually assaulted, and she was looking for a martial art to learn that would help protect her. The closest schools to her were a Bjj school and an Aikido dojo. She had read the faqs and literally had no idea what to study because everything was conflicting. Reading through the reddit posts, I could only imagine her level of confusion as a person who had no idea what martial art to take. In the end, I don't know what art she ended up going with, but I shudder to think if she actually ventured into the Aikido dojo thinking that she was going to learn how to protect herself.

Aikido certainly has its uses and plusses. However, if my wife or daughter were looking for a martial art to stop a man from imposing his will on them, it wouldn't be my top choice. Especially if there is a Bjj school in the area. Is that fair to say? I definitely think so, and I think we should be more honest when people less knowledgeable than us seek advice.

in a lot of circumstances they would both be equally useless, if bjj or its disciples ( you) are recommending bbj as effective measure against sexual assaults, with out printing out that's it's application diminishes to next to nothing as the size strength weight advantage of the attacker increases. then it to is badly misreprenting it's self

the best immediate advice after some about avoiding danger is to go weight training to reduce the strength advantage, then worry about ma

 

[Hanzou]

in a lot of circumstances they would both be equally useless, if bjj or its disciples ( you) are recommending bbj as effective measure against sexual assaults, with out printing out that's it's application diminishes to next to nothing as the size strength weight advantage of the attacker increases. then it to is badly misreprenting it's self

Except in Bjj training you are exposed to opponents who are bigger and stronger than you on a regular basis. For example, if you're a 120 lb woman in a gym full of big guys that you're constantly rolling with, you're going to learn how to deal with those size differences. In other words, if you can triangle choke your 250lb training partner, there's a good chance you can triangle choke some guy trying to impose their will on you in a self defense situation.

 

[jobo]

Except in Bjj training you are exposed to opponents who are bigger and stronger than you. For example, if you're a 120 lb woman in a gym full of big guys that you're constantly rolling with, you're going to learn how to deal with those size differences. In other words, if you can triangle choke your 250lb training partner, there's a good chance you can triangle choke some guy trying to impose their will on you in a self defense situation.

if your putting a training partner who is 100 lbs heavier and also learning bjj in a choke hold, he is either letting you or he isn't very good at all, that's why they have weight divisions and that before we discuss strengh

 

[Xue Sheng]

Except in Bjj training you are exposed to opponents who are bigger and stronger than you on a regular basis. For example, if you're a 120 lb woman in a gym full of big guys that you're constantly rolling with, you're going to learn how to deal with those size differences. In other words, if you can triangle choke your 250lb training partner, there's a good chance you can triangle choke some guy trying to impose their will on you in a self defense situation.

Yeah, and....you appear to be trying to argue against a point no one is trying to make. You may want to read the blog post without the bjj chip on your shoulder and see what is actually being said

My only question to you, which your response does not answer, was what if the person "you" want to take BJJ, does not want to take it, or does not like it? Thereby learning no SD at all

 

[Hanzou]

if your putting a training partner who is 100 lbs heavier and also learning bjj in a choke hold, he is either letting you or he isn't very good at all, that's why they have weight divisions and that before we discuss strengh

Or you're actually putting them in a choke hold. I've seen it happen, and it's happened to me when I rolled against people smaller than myself. And yes, it does tend to happen with beginning students who think they can push through a choke because a small guy or a woman is choking them. However, that only proves the point, because some perp attacking you is more than likely going to attack you just like a new student at a Bjj academy would.

BTW, I have yet to see anyone tap when a choke or a lock is not firmly in place.

 

[Hanzou]

Yeah, and....you appear to be trying to argue against a point no one is trying to make. You may want to read the blog post without the bjj chip on your shoulder and see what is actually being said

My only question to you, which your response does not answer, was what if the person "you" want to take BJJ, does not want to take it, or does not like it? Thereby learning no SD at all

That's on them, and there's no issue there. People take what the want to take. However, if someone is asking for advice we have a responsibility to give them honest answers.

 

[jobo]

Or you're actually putting them in a choke hold. I've seen it happen, and it's happened to me when I rolled against people smaller than myself. And yes, it does tend to happen with beginning students who think they can push through a choke because a small guy or a woman is choking them. However, that only proves the point, because some perp attacking you is more than likely going to attack you just like a new student at a Bjj academy would.

BTW, I have yet to see anyone tap when a choke or a lock is not firmly in place.

small guy or small woman, even a small guy is likely bigger and stronger than a small woman

as it is you seem to be describing out liers, that some woman can do it doesn't mean that you can recommend it as a likely out come, which is what your doing

 

[Hanzou]

small guy or small woman, even a small guy is likely bigger and stronger than a small woman

as it is you seem to be describing out liers, that some woman can do it doesn't mean that you can recommend it as a likely out come, which is what your doing

Uh I can definitely recommend it. A female black belt in BJJ isn't someone to mess with, no matter how big you are. Further, that woman has had years of experience sparring and submitting men who outweigh her. In fact, I would go so far as to say that a female in BJJ is better off than a large man in BJJ, because the female is relying more on technical skill than strength.

 

[jobo]

Uh I can definitely recommend it. A female black belt in BJJ isn't someone to mess with, no matter how big you are. Further, that woman has had years of experience sparring and submitting men who outweigh her. In fact, I would go so far as to say that a female in BJJ is better off than a large man in BJJ, because the female is relying more on technical skill than strength.

I know your recommending it, your a single issue poster, all you ever do is recommend it.

but femail black belts are out liers,

after that your into fantasy, smaller weaker people Don t have an advantage, other wise we would have lots of weak boxers as world champ s yet there they all are lifting heavy weights

 

[Hanzou]

I know your recommending it, your a single issue poster, all you ever do is recommend it.

but femail black belts are out liers,

after that your into fantasy, smaller weaker people have an advantage, other wise we would have lots of weak boxers as world champ s

A woman in Bjj is an outlier period. That really isn't the point. The point is that a woman training in Bjj will get used to fighting and submitting bigger and larger opponents well within their comfort zone. That makes it a rather invaluable self defense tool.

Also yes, a person using skill to perform a technique is better off than a person utilizing strength. Again I experienced this myself when I lost 40lbs while training and had to pretty much relearn how to grapple. I actually went from a top player to a guard player because I couldn't overpower people like I used to.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It doesn't work...

Well said.

 

[jobo]

A woman in Bjj is an outlier period. That really isn't the point. The point is that a woman training in Bjj will get used to fighting and submitting bigger and larger opponents well within their comfort zone. That makes it a rather invaluable self defense tool.

Also yes, a person using skill to perform a technique is better off than a person utilizing strength. Again I experienced this myself when I lost 40lbs while training and had to pretty much relearn how to grapple. I actually went from a top player to a guard player because I couldn't overpower people like I used to.

there's plenty of women do BJJ, they may make up a small % but thats still quite a lot, what an outlier is your insistence that black belt level is attainable to the average girl on the street, or that thats isnt a decade away, which is no used to anybody next week, next month, next year

and loosing 40 lbs doesnt make you weaker, just not as fat,

as to the rest your as delusion as the most delusion TMA insisting that being small and weak is an advantage, even if you develop reasonable skill your still small and weak and thats a DISADVANTAGE

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My issue with this is that while we can all sing kumbaya and pretend that everything is equal, everything is not equal, and there's a LOT of BS out there.

I recently came across a post on reddit. It was from a woman who had been attacked and sexually assaulted, and she was looking for a martial art to learn that would help protect her. The closest schools to her were a Bjj school and an Aikido dojo. She had read the faqs and literally had no idea what to study because everything was conflicting. Reading through the reddit posts, I could only imagine her level of confusion as a person who had no idea what martial art to take. In the end, I don't know what art she ended up going with, but I shudder to think if she actually ventured into the Aikido dojo thinking that she was going to learn how to protect herself.

Aikido certainly has its uses and plusses. However, if my wife or daughter were looking for a martial art to stop a man from imposing his will on them, it wouldn't be my top choice. Especially if there is a Bjj school in the area. Is that fair to say? I definitely think so, and I think we should be more honest when people less knowledgeable than us seek advice.

A lot depends how the Aikido is trained. There's a lot of "soft" training in Aikido, and I think a certain amount is necessary for learning the feel of the aiki approach. But I think there's too much of it in many schools.

Aikido uses many of the same principles as Judo, BJJ, and wrestling. Unfortunately, many in Aikido don't seem to know some of those shared principles and rely on a portion of the toolset.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the thrust of your post that if your art "doesn't work" (or if you believe that your art doesn't work) you're not doing something right? Essentially people who venture into a style, find something wrong with it, and begin to "bash it" are doing so because they simply didn't go deeper into their system of choice. I would counter that some of us have dug deeper into our previous systems and found rather massive glaring holes in the training methodologies being offered.

Which brings us back to the case of this young woman who was seeking a martial art that would protect her from sexual assault. Given your argument, her going into an Aikido dojo would be just fine because eventually she will be able to use her Aikido effectively. However, if we're being honest with ourselves, it could take that woman years if not longer to use Aikido even at a rudimentary level (if ever). She was deciding between Aikido and Bjj, and if those people were honest and serious in that forum, they would have unanimously told her to go to the Bjj school. Unfortunately in the world of martial arts, we try to be politically correct instead of being honest and serious.

I thought the thrust of his post was that you need to put in the time working out with folks outside your dojo and outside your art. Then you find out what works, when, and (eventually) why.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

in a lot of circumstances they would both be equally useless, if bjj or its disciples ( you) are recommending bbj as effective measure against sexual assaults, with out printing out that's it's application diminishes to next to nothing as the size strength weight advantage of the attacker increases. then it to is badly misreprenting it's self

the best immediate advice after some about avoiding danger is to go weight training to reduce the strength advantage, then worry about ma

BJJ does as good a job as I've seen of working around the size/strength disadvantage. Just adding strength isn't much help unless it actually evens the odds or gives you a strength advantage.

 

[Hanzou]

there's plenty of women do BJJ, they may make up a small % but thats still quite a lot, what an outlier is your insistence that black belt level is attainable to the average girl on the street, or that thats isnt a decade away, which is no used to anybody next week, next month, next year

Frankly even getting to Blue Belt in BJJ would be highly beneficial for a woman seeking self defense.

and loosing 40 lbs doesnt make you weaker, just not as fat,

That 40lbs I lost included muscle, not just fat.

as to the rest your as delusion as the most delusion TMA insisting that being small and weak is an advantage, even if you develop reasonable skill your still small and weak and thats a DISADVANTAGE

You dont seem to understand what I'm talking about here so I think it's best that we leave it at that.