Is your WC/WT a "system"?

geezer

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I just put a post in the "General MA" about "styles" vesus "systems". The whole idea reflects my experience in Wing Chun, especially the WT branch. Unlike a lot of other martial arts, what we do is a very logical extention of our core concepts, namely, seeking maximum simplicity, efficiency, using centerline attacks, yielding and "borrowing" our opponent's force and turning it back against him... all the stuff from the motto "Stay with what comes, follow the retreat, thrust forward when the hand is freed" (or other similar translations).

As a system, we do not just randomly adopt new or "cool" techniques from other arts. Our movements should reflect the simplest, most efficient and direct response possible to a given combat scenario, without fighting brute force with force. We don't arbitrarily affect odd postures and positions, or give our techniques exotic names. We seek the most efficient and effective response and we just call a "palm-up arm" or "tan-sau" by what it is. Sometimes what we do may look peculiar, but it is always for a practical reason. If there is no good reason... we don't do it! And, if another martial artist can show me a better, more efficient movement that reflects our concepts, then he is teaching me WC/WT no matter what they call it (it happened yesterday!). Any thoughts?

Oh, about that guy that taught me a better way to do something yesterday, he's one of my FMA instructors who has more than a passing familiarity with WC... so it was pretty easy for him to relate to what we do. He just showed me how shave two movements (defense and counter) down into one centerline movement that does both. Hey, that's WC/WT in my book.
 

profesormental

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Greetings.

In short, as I see it, a "system" a is method of teaching, while a "style" is the individual expression and execution.

More on this later. Lots to do here... Hope it helps.

Juan M. Mercado
 

KamonGuy2

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Interesting topic. I think the problem swith just finding a cool new move is that they become hard to remember in a fight.

I have trained arts before, where we learnt one specific technique for a specific attack.

The trouble with that is that no-one attacks you in a set ways, and you would have to rememer what that technique was you learnt five weeks ago

In wing chun, we train core basics that can be apllied in various different ways. We then train 'feeding techniques' which is basically a person randomly attacking you while you deal with it

There is nothing wrong with updating an art or including new concepts, but if you throw n a random technique that defies what you have been taught previously can really throw you out of balance
 
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geezer

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In wing chun, we train core basics that can be apllied in various different ways. We then train 'feeding techniques' which is basically a person randomly attacking you while you deal with it

There is nothing wrong with updating an art or including new concepts, but if you throw in a random technique that defies what you have been taught previously can really throw you out of balance

Exactly. A "random technique" from another art may "work", but if it doesn't fit our core concepts and our method of movement, it becomes a distraction...an extraneous bit of baggage. So when I was making an awkward two-step block and counter in Eskrima, the instructor took my stick away and said, "Hold on...show me how you would deal with that, without a stick, in Wing Tsun." When I showed him, using much more efficient movements, he gave me my stick back and said "Good, now apply the same principles... using just one movement and with the same forward pressure, but do it with the stick." This time I was really able to make it work. In fact, I felt like I "owned" the technique because it was no longer that random fragment taken out of context. Now I could fit it into my "system".
 

yak sao

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what I like about WT is that it is principle based so everything relates to everything else. Nothing is out in left field. My old si-sok said WT is like a puzzle but all the pieces are the same shape.

With regards to the cool technique, I'm a firm believer that in a fight you are going to revert back to the lowest common denominator in your training. So it's the things that you can literally do in your sleep that are going to come to the forefront when the heat is on. The cool technique, if not based on the principles of the system will go out the window.
 

KamonGuy2

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Exactly. As we have said before, many arts use the same kind of shapes or attacks, but maybe done with different energy or in a slightly different way

We work on clinchwork that involves the 'muay thai' double neck grab. Yet we do it using wing chun base and we shoot our arms under like the first part of the dummy form. The idea is that we don't make the move fit into the art, we make our concepts absorb the move. If we were merely to take a muay thai clinch because it is fun, it wouldn't work because we are not muay thai fighters and wouldn't last very long against one

We have to look at the wing chun equivalent and improve it by using what we have already built which is a good base, strong structure and good movement
 

Yoshiyahu

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I agree that Wing Chun is a system,

How ever whats the difference between the word:

System and Style?


What is the meaning of those words.

Would the system of fighting be WC and style be Gung Fu oppose to another style being Karate or TKD?


what I like about WT is that it is principle based so everything relates to everything else. Nothing is out in left field. My old si-sok said WT is like a puzzle but all the pieces are the same shape.

With regards to the cool technique, I'm a firm believer that in a fight you are going to revert back to the lowest common denominator in your training. So it's the things that you can literally do in your sleep that are going to come to the forefront when the heat is on. The cool technique, if not based on the principles of the system will go out the window.
 

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