Is Wing Chun even viable.

[drop bear]

yep funny how it works. "If it's not in professional fighting then it's no good." The reality is, "It's not what someone else can do with martial arts, it's what I can do with it." Because I'm the one who has to use it, not the professional fighter.

If you have a bunch of professional fighters in the gym then you at least know you are going to get trained to a reasonable standard.

I mean the expectation you have when you learn something is that the person teaching you has any sort of clue as to what he is doing.

If you have no talent or more importantly have no commitment to be trained.That is a sepparate issue.

Now if you have no talent you should be more inclined to seek out good training because you are going to need all the help you can get. If you have no talent you will have to also train longer and harder. Not less.

I am really lost with this line of logic. Why do we constantly inspire people towards mediocrity?

 

[drop bear]

Also: people who say Muay Thai is awesome only seem to think about the athletes that are on the top of their game. They don't come to think of the average Joe, who only does it for the fitness and the thrills of a good exercise, but who does not want to get to the ring, or even might be scared of doing that; he might not even be any good at what he does, but he does it anyway since he likes it.

This goes to show the values that people too often unwittingly commit to when it goes to their preferences in martial arts. I've seen lots of flack against Taido because "it would get you killed in T3H STREETZ" or "it can't win against other styles". This shows a hidden agenda that a real value of any martial arts practice is the superior outcome of a violent encounter, either consensual (a sporting event) or not (civilian protection). Hell, many people like to train martial arts because the practice and the social bonds they form in the activity are meaningful to the individual themselves which, in the context of the society at large, is way more laudable and preferable than a hierarchical pecking order based on a superiority in skills involving physical violence.

Rant over.

You can do both by the way. Have a system that works and have a positive uplifting atmosphere.

Martial arts for PTSD is a perfect example.

 

[Martial D]

yep funny how it works. "If it's not in professional fighting then it's no good." The reality is, "It's not what someone else can do with martial arts, it's what I can do with it." Because I'm the one who has to use it, not the professional fighter.

Because in all the years, you are the first to try I guess.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Self-defense consist of a lot things with the main goal of either not being in a fight, conflict, or coming out on the healthier side of a conflict that turns physical.

I have put up this clip before. If you train MA for SD, what will you do if you are in this clip?

 

[punisher73]

The whole "is it viable" argument gets very tiresome. Wing Chun has made it into the the modern times because it has worked for many people and continues to work for many people.

There are many factors to that statement though. Ip Man is not going to be in that dark alley that you decided to walk through as a shortcut because you thought you were better than that. A good system will have you avoid that dark alley and not put yourself at unnecessary risk in the first place. Awareness is the biggest key to self-defense.

Next, WC and most other traditional arts were not created for consensual sporting context, Muay Thai and MMA were. If you put ANY art in an environment it was not designed for, it is probably not going to work as well as something that was. This also gets into realistic drilling and training for TMA's. Which is where combat sports really out due an art like WC (or plug in any TMA), they work all the time on resisting people trying to do the same thing back.

So, ultimately, it depends on what your goals are and what you gain from your training.

 

[lklawson]

Is it viable, or fake?

Define "viable." Viable for WHAT? Viable for WHO?

You know what? Don't answer. I got tired of the whole "martial art X sucks" arguments a few decades ago. Whether or not WC (or any/every other TMA/non-TMA) is "viable" is such well worn cloth that it's past being threadbare and is falling apart at the seams.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you have a bunch of professional fighters in the gym then you at least know you are going to get trained to a reasonable standard.

I mean the expectation you have when you learn something is that the person teaching you has any sort of clue as to what he is doing.

If you have no talent or more importantly have no commitment to be trained.That is a sepparate issue.

Now if you have no talent you should be more inclined to seek out good training because you are going to need all the help you can get. If you have no talent you will have to also train longer and harder. Not less.

I am really lost with this line of logic. Why do we constantly inspire people towards mediocrity?

That's a good question with no simple answer other than money and an effort to keep students who don't want to be their best.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I have put up this clip before. If you train MA for SD, what will you do if you are in this clip?

For me, that wouldn't be a self-defense situation. That would be a moral situation. There are some things I just don't want to be as a person. In my eyes sometimes people should be bigger than who they. sometimes you just have to do what's right even when it means you'll lose.

I'm protective by nature so it wouldn't be unrealistic for me to step up. Since I understand this about me. I want to give myself the best chance of a positive outcome for me. I don't want to step up just to take a beating.

 

[ZockerSWAT]

Define "viable." Viable for WHAT? Viable for WHO?

You know what? Don't answer. I got tired of the whole "martial art X sucks" arguments a few decades ago. Whether or not WC (or any/every other TMA/non-TMA) is "viable" is such well worn cloth that it's past being threadbare and is falling apart at the seams.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

With all do respect, but if you dont want to answer or if you are tired of it then dont click on this post.
Nobody is forcing you to come on this post. And this isnt a "Martial art x sucks" post.
Asking if something is viable in this case a *Self-defence* Martial Art, and asking if its
viable, you can think that its related to self defence.

But to be honest if you dont want to answer, then dont answer.

 

[ZockerSWAT]

The whole "is it viable" argument gets very tiresome. Wing Chun has made it into the the modern times because it has worked for many people and continues to work for many people.

There are many factors to that statement though. Ip Man is not going to be in that dark alley that you decided to walk through as a shortcut because you thought you were better than that. A good system will have you avoid that dark alley and not put yourself at unnecessary risk in the first place. Awareness is the biggest key to self-defense.

Next, WC and most other traditional arts were not created for consensual sporting context, Muay Thai and MMA were. If you put ANY art in an environment it was not designed for, it is probably not going to work as well as something that was. This also gets into realistic drilling and training for TMA's. Which is where combat sports really out due an art like WC (or plug in any TMA), they work all the time on resisting people trying to do the same thing back.

So, ultimately, it depends on what your goals are and what you gain from your training.

Thanks and I can understand if its tiresome.
But even if its tiresome for you, you gave the best answer you could and I appreciate that!

 

[lklawson]

With all do respect, but if you dont want to answer or if you are tired of it then dont click on this post.
Nobody is forcing you to come on this post. And this isnt a "Martial art x sucks" post.
Asking if something is viable in this case a *Self-defence* Martial Art, and asking if its
viable, you can think that its related to self defence.

But to be honest if you dont want to answer, then dont answer.

The 90's wants its martial arts drama back.

 

[ZockerSWAT]

The 90's wants its martial arts drama back.

When somebody makes a solid argument and you try to dodge that argument,
thats not a good sign.
And I gonna say this again as politely as I can,
If you are really bothred, you dont need to come on here,
there is an ingore list you can put me on, or just ignore this post.
I like this post because here are people trying to debate and have a discussion,
I dont see anything wrong with that.

 

[Danny T]

My older brother got wing chung classes and he like it.
He didnt go to some classes and dropped it, because his teacher changed, but he still had in his mind, that
wing chun is viable,.... because his trainer said he needed self defense and started giving him classes.

I am doing muay thai right now, and I have to say its fricking amazing! Just all the kind of kicks is so much fun.
I had a sparring match as well (but sadly a boxing sparring match, because I only had 2 days of training, but still fun!). I got a lot of adrenaline and it felt so good being in a sparring match.
After I told my older brother about it, he got a bit depressed, because he watched a video of 5 fake martial arts, and wing chun was at number one. Because I am not quite the martial artist, I need your guys' opinion on this martial art. Is it viable, or fake?

Glad you are enjoying your muay thai experience.

"Is it (Wing Chun) viable, or fake?"
As an individual who has done years of boxing, wrestling, muay thai, shotokan, and several other martial combat methods as well as wing chun it is my opinion that it is viable when actually trained and practiced with a good instructor in a realistic manner. It is also my opinion that many wc practitioners are poor examples good wc. Just as there are many poor examples of boxers, nak muays, doctors, lawyers, police, politicians, and all other human endeavors.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

For me, that wouldn't be a self-defense situation. That would be a moral situation.

People like to talk about SD. People don't like to take about moral situation any more. I still remember my long fist teacher told all his students that

"If you don't have a good reason to fight and you fight, I'll beat you up when I find out. If you have a good reason to fight and you don't fight, I'll also beat you up when I find out."

The 1st part is easy to understand. The 2nd part is the moral situation. The 侠(Xia) - heroic, brave and chivalrous is a very important part of the CMA training. Unfortunately, people don't talk about it very much today.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I just finished my 2 hours class 20 minutes ago. We use WC Tang Shou to counter hook punch (or hay-maker). When I deal with my opponent's punch, I like to move my arm away from my head (close to my opponent's head). WC Tang Shou is a good tool for that. I don't like the boxing guard that I keep my arms next to my own head.

The WC Tang Shou treats the arm as a water pipe. The water flow from shoulder all the way to the finger tips. Can I find WC Tang Shou in long fist, preying mantis, Baji, Taiji, XingYi, Bagua, ... I can't. IMO, the Tang Shou is quite unique for WC.

I like to share what I think the good stuff in the WC system. IMO, it's the strategy of

- Protect center from inside out.
- If I put my arms in your straight punch path, all your straight punch will have to deal with my arms first. This way I force you to use circular punch on me. When you do that, your head will be exposed.

 

[lklawson]

When somebody makes a solid argument and you try to dodge that argument,
thats not a good sign.
And I gonna say this again as politely as I can,
If you are really bothred, you dont need to come on here,
there is an ingore list you can put me on, or just ignore this post.
I like this post because here are people trying to debate and have a discussion,
I dont see anything wrong with that.

OK, I'll be blunt.

This whole line of "is martial art X 'viable' or not" was played out back in the early days of the UFC. Now the whole thing has become passe and run into the ground. The only people who bring it up now are the very young who think they've somehow discovered that not every martial art is the same or like the movies (while thinking they've also discovered the "ultimate" martial art) or internet trolls. Which are you?

 

[ZockerSWAT]

People like to talk about SD. People don't like to take about moral situation any more. I still remember my long fist teacher told all his students that

"If you don't have a good reason to fight and you fight, I'll beat you up when I find out. If you have a good reason to fight and you don't fight, I'll also beat you up when I find out."

The 1st part is easy to understand. The 2nd part is the moral situation. The 侠(Xia) - heroic, brave and chivalrous is a very important opart of the CMA training. Unfortunately, people don't talk about it very much today.

Yeah, I think that is important as well.
A lot of people just want to fight me, because I said I am doing muay thai training.
Those people come from a little city, that is basicly full of turkish people, like myself.
They all wanna be cool and got a punching bag and want to show how manly they are.
I am just raised not to do any trouble, unless I have a reason.
But I can imagine, and even more for people in my age, that they would've fought
some or at least one for "sparring" against people that are just trying to be cool
and have 0 experience.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

OK, I'll be blunt.

This whole line of "is martial art X 'viable' or not" was played out back in the early days of the UFC. Now the whole thing has become passe and run into the ground. The only people who bring it up now are the very young who think they've somehow discovered that not every martial art is the same or like the movies (while thinking they've also discovered the "ultimate" martial art) or internet trolls. Which are you?

His age/profile pic may help answer that for you. He's still exploring.

 

[ZockerSWAT]

OK, I'll be blunt.

This whole line of "is martial art X 'viable' or not" was played out back in the early days of the UFC. Now the whole thing has become passe and run into the ground. The only people who bring it up now are the very young who think they've somehow discovered that not every martial art is the same or like the movies (while thinking they've also discovered the "ultimate" martial art) or internet trolls. Which are you?

I dont think there is an "ultimate martial art". Experience is what matters for most of the time.
And of course every martial art is different, or they wouldnt have different names to begin with.
Being an internet troll isnt my stuff either, and you can tell that by the second. I wouldnt invest so much time into this and chatting with people at 12 am with school comming up the next day to find a gym I can go to.
So I would say none.


Your forgot the third group of people who ask that:

Full Newbies who didnt even touch martial arts, till they found interest in it. Every martial art is different, but that doesnt mean every martial art is viable (Be it for xy or xz....).


I thought, that this community had great people who can answer my question politely.
If you go to the "Beginners Corner" section and try to beat down a complete new member with
"I dont want to talk about this topic, I have seen this many times.".
Then why are you on the beginners corner section to begin with?
Do you excpect me to know what happend with the early days of the UFC?
Of course not that is why I am here asking this question to begin with.
You could just say :
"This Topic has been talked about many times now, here is a link to [...] it will explain it better."

I have said many times that I have basicly 0 experience. I am a full on newbie.
Why go full on assault mode?

Edit: Thinking a 14 year old just trying to find his love in Martial Arts knows what happend at the start of the ufc. I probably wasnt even born then yet, or couldnt even walk.

 

[lklawson]

I dont think there is an "ultimate martial art". Experience is what matters for most of the time.
And of course every martial art is different, or they wouldnt have different names to begin with.
Being an internet troll isnt my stuff either, and you can tell that by the second. I wouldnt invest so much time into this and chatting with people at 12 am with school comming up the next day to find a gym I can go to.
So I would say none.


Your forgot the third group of people who ask that:

Full Newbies who didnt even touch martial arts, till they found interest in it. Every martial art is different, but that doesnt mean every martial art is viable (Be it for xy or xz....).


I thought, that this community had great people who can answer my question politely.
If you go to the "Beginners Corner" section and try to beat down a complete new member with
"I dont want to talk about this topic, I have seen this many times.".
Then why are you on the beginners corner section to begin with?
Do you excpect me to know what happend with the early days of the UFC?
Of course not that is why I am here asking this question to begin with.
You could just say :
"This Topic has been talked about many times now, here is a link to [...] it will explain it better."

I have said many times that I have basicly 0 experience. I am a full on newbie.
Why go full on assault mode?

Edit: Thinking a 14 year old just trying to find his love in Martial Arts knows what happend at the start of the ufc. I probably wasnt even born then yet, or couldnt even walk.

I'll continue to be blunt, since it seems to be a bit more effective.

Asking "is martial art X 'viable' or not" is kinda insulting to people who practice X. It's apt to start a fight, particularly online.

And that's kinda what it seems like you want to do right now. Fight.

So you want a link? Fortunately, there's one right here on this very forum:
The Newbie Guide to Martial Arts Training (ver 2.6) - by Jeff Pipkins