Is this a legitimate gym or mcdojo

jobo

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I think if I was a beginner student, and looking to learn CHINESE MARTIAL ARTS but my teacher could not say anything in Chinese I would most likely look elsewhere because I
yea and if i went to learn to speak chinese and the instructor couldnt do kung fu, id look elsewhere coz obviously the two are connected
 

JowGaWolf

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I would think it is odd, and maybe think they do not understand the art they are teaching well enough, if it is a Chinese martial art I practice and I happen to see, feel the technique and still see they use some weird name for it, I might offer them the Chinese terminology, ask why they do not learn the Chinese terminology for it,

if a Shifu still declines I most likely would not take them to serious as a Shifu of that Chinese martial art in my opinion
Would you feel the same way if the person didn't understand what they taught enough to be able to apply the technique? I'm not talking about just repeating how they told a technique is applied. I mean actually apply it.
 

Dirty Dog

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Before I begin, I speak and read Chinese, I also teach Chinese Martial arts,

if someone wants to teach Chinese martial arts and not use Chinese terminology that is their business, if someone asks my opinion as a Shifu and who speaks and reads Chinese if someone does not use Chinese terminology in their class what I think,

I would think it is odd, and maybe think they do not understand the art they are teaching well enough, if it is a Chinese martial art I practice and I happen to see, feel the technique and still see they use some weird name for it, I might offer them the Chinese terminology, ask why they do not learn the Chinese terminology for it,

if a Shifu still declines I most likely would not take them to serious as a Shifu of that Chinese martial art in my opinion.

What does my ability to speak a foreign language have to do with my ability to teach martial arts skills?
 

Tenshin

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Would you feel the same way if the person didn't understand what they taught enough to be able to apply the technique? I'm not talking about just repeating how they told a technique is applied. I mean actually apply it.

If a person does not understand the technique correctly even if they apply it and a result occurs does not mean they understood the the technique's intent is.

If you say you do Judo and only learned Judo and teach Judo, but your terminology for Ude Garami is always Kimura lock other Judoka and especially Judo Sensei's are going to think it is odd, and wonder if you really just train BJJ and not Judo meaning you may not be taken as serious even though you can successfully apply the technique.
 

Tenshin

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What does my ability to speak a foreign language have to do with my ability to teach martial arts skills?

my opinion is you should use the native languages terminology in teaching said martial art from that country. if you disagree that is fine.
 

Tenshin

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If you teach muay thai. Someone should fight muay thai.

Do you mean if someone is teaching Muay Thai they should have ring experience?
2 schools of thought on it, some say yes you should IF you are teaching Muay Thai for the ring.
Others will say if you are teaching Muay Thai for self defense, fitness, then no having ring experience is not required.
Some coaches are really good at coaching because they have a good eye and know how to coach and spar.
You would have to go ask guys on Sherdog, Reddit, and other forums with more Muay Thai and Muay Boran people to get more of a response.
But not everyone who is doing Muay wants to go in the ring they are happy hitting pads and bags and sparring.
 

drop bear

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Do you mean if someone is teaching Muay Thai they should have ring experience?
2 schools of thought on it, some say yes you should IF you are teaching Muay Thai for the ring.
Others will say if you are teaching Muay Thai for self defense, fitness, then no having ring experience is not required.
Some coaches are really good at coaching because they have a good eye and know how to coach and spar.
You would have to go ask guys on Sherdog, Reddit, and other forums with more Muay Thai and Muay Boran people to get more of a response.
But not everyone who is doing Muay wants to go in the ring they are happy hitting pads and bags and sparring.

You don't have to fight. But the muay thai should be at a competency level were someone is fighting.

So that if you did want to get in any full contact fight, either it being a muay thai fight or a self defense situation you don't get murdered because nobody knows what they are doing. Because nobody has done the thing they are teaching.

That video is ours and we are not a muay thai school but we can strike at a competency level where if we get in a muay thai fight we won't get murdered.
 

Tenshin

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You don't have to fight. But the muay thai should be at a competency level were someone is fighting.

So that if you did want to get in any full contact fight, either it being a muay thai fight or a self defense situation you don't get murdered because nobody knows what they are doing. Because nobody has done the thing they are teaching.

That video is ours and we are not a muay thai school but we can strike at a competency level where if we get in a muay thai fight we won't get murdered.
I think any martial art should be at a competency level with someone in fighting. You do not need a ring to spar someone light or full contact per say.
Also you have to know your clientele, if I have soccer mom Jenny, and Old man Bob they are not looking to do Muay to fight full contact they are looking to loose weight, blow off steam, and possible self defense, they have no interest in going that direction, in fact most people are not looking to do full contact especially people that are older.
 

drop bear

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I think any martial art should be at a competency level with someone in fighting. You do not need a ring to spar someone light or full contact per say.
Also you have to know your clientele, if I have soccer mom Jenny, and Old man Bob they are not looking to do Muay to fight full contact they are looking to loose weight, blow off steam, and possible self defense, they have no interest in going that direction, in fact most people are not looking to do full contact especially people that are older.


The problem you have is a school that equips people to fight can very easily cater for a soccer mum. But a school that doesn't cannot equip that soccer mum to become a fighter.


The same instruction but performed at different levels.
 

Tenshin

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The problem you have is a school that equips people to fight can very easily cater for a soccer mum. But a school that doesn't cannot equip that soccer mum to become a fighter.
Ok your first comment was
"If you (are) teach(ing) muay thai. Someone should (be able to) fight (with?) (in?) muay thai."
This was your first opinion
The sentence was very difficult to understand

You then change your stance to:
"You don't have to fight. But the muay thai should be at a competency level were someone is fighting(with someone?)."

You then say:
"The problem you have is a school that equips people to fight(,) can very easily cater for a soccer mum. But a school that (doesn't (or)cannot equip that soccer mum to become a fighter."

Here is my definition of "Fighting" The act of in which one or more people are in conflict be it verbal or physical exchanges to be able to beat an opponent and win.
it is different then Self Defense which would be defined as using what ever means needed and lawful to end a conflict were the goal is to make it home safe and alive.

I have Zero interest in teaching people how to fight and compete, I do have an interest in teaching people how to achieve the goal of making it home safe and alive.
though being able to defend yourself may be part of fighting the goals are not the same as self defense.

It is just my opinion.



 

gpseymour

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Well that is your opinion I will leave it at that since we will disagree and no point in discussing it any further.
There’s really nothing to discuss, since your entire point thus far has been “you should”.
 

gpseymour

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first benefit: By learning common wording of techniques in native language you can have a better linking of other techniques and even from other styles from that country.

Second benefit: Some words just can not be explained well enough in translations, translating comes up with the closest meaning sometimes a word can be broken down into literal meanings but when you start learning the concept of the language in context you will have a better understanding of the intent of the wording.

Third benefit: If you are discussing an art and culture being respectful and knowledgeable by using the language associated with said art and culture does make you seem more educated and taken more serious as an expert in said field. Some of these terms have a historical significance and cultural relevance changing the name or some interpretation takes that away.

Fourth Benefit: Makes cross communication much easier as every country will use the origins original language, I can say Kote Gaeshi and guys from Italy, France, Japan, America understand, if I say English Wrist lock they might think which one.

Just 4 off the top of my head, it is my opinion some may agree some may not.
It’s my experience that much of that doesn’t work the way you suggest. Terms are often poorly understood, having only the context of the training, and lead to misunderstanding of context. The poor usage (and misusage) doesn’t really do much to honor the origin, and there’s enough drift in each area that it doesn’t add much clarity unless there are strong ties back to the origin country (Judo and Ueshiba’s Aikido might fit this).

I’d agree this can work better with larger organizations, but I’ve seen language cause misunderstanding even then.
 

gpseymour

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my opinion is you should use the native languages terminology in teaching said martial art from that country. if you disagree that is fine.
I know at least one Japanese founder who disagreed, and used English terms. In Japan.
 

Tenshin

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There’s really nothing to discuss, since your entire point thus far has been “you should”.

Ok go search Aikido terminology and most websites will have a list of the terms in Japanese with English translation, most Aikido dojo do not teach the techniques in English they say ikkyo nikkyo you know around the world thousands of Aikido dojo do this.
 

Tenshin

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It’s my experience that much of that doesn’t work the way you suggest. Terms are often poorly understood, having only the context of the training, and lead to misunderstanding of context. The poor usage (and misusage) doesn’t really do much to honor the origin, and there’s enough drift in each area that it doesn’t add much clarity unless there are strong ties back to the origin country (Judo and Ueshiba’s Aikido might fit this).

I’d agree this can work better with larger organizations, but I’ve seen language cause misunderstanding even then.
Koryu arts do not use english they do not care if you do or do not understand the language.
 

drop bear

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Ok your first comment was
"If you (are) teach(ing) muay thai. Someone should (be able to) fight (with?) (in?) muay thai."
This was your first opinion
The sentence was very difficult to understand

You then change your stance to:
"You don't have to fight. But the muay thai should be at a competency level were someone is fighting(with someone?)."

You then say:
"The problem you have is a school that equips people to fight(,) can very easily cater for a soccer mum. But a school that (doesn't (or)cannot equip that soccer mum to become a fighter."

Here is my definition of "Fighting" The act of in which one or more people are in conflict be it verbal or physical exchanges to be able to beat an opponent and win.
it is different then Self Defense which would be defined as using what ever means needed and lawful to end a conflict were the goal is to make it home safe and alive.

I have Zero interest in teaching people how to fight and compete, I do have an interest in teaching people how to achieve the goal of making it home safe and alive.
though being able to defend yourself may be part of fighting the goals are not the same as self defense.

It is just my opinion.

Someone in that gym should be able to fight. And should have had fights. Someone in that gym should have been able to teach someone else to fight and they should have had fights.

And that experience should be the model that the instruction is based off.

Because then you can tell at least one component of self defence works. Which is why ring fighting is important to development.

From there you can take what works and adjust it to achieve a different goal.

So MMA has a different goal to muay thai. But because fighting works.It is not a big leap to adjust the goal.

This is the same when we talk about the transition from a ring sport to self defence.

But when your fighting doesn't work in mma or muay thai or anywhere anyone can see. You are going to have a very hard time adjusting that to self defence.
 
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Tenshin

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I know at least one Japanese founder who disagreed, and used English terms. In Japan.
Great 1 out of thousands over hundreds of years.
Having been to Japan and lived there most Japanese are not fluent in English nor will put their techniques in English if anything it would be Japanese English, its just odd. I have never been to a dojo in Japan and the sensei spoke everything in English, he might say one or 2 words in English to help you as in most cases you may be the only English speaking guy there but since if he is popular and has people all over the world he will most likely request you learn Japanese.

One of my Japanese teachers commented on a group that only uses English terminology she said they can never learn the deeper essence of the art as it is intended because they do not speak or read Japanese. If you really want to speak English only in your school I have said many times do it, it is your business, my students are glad I teach them the language, the history, the culture and tradition that gives them a deeper understanding that someone who doesn't speak the language. I study Japanese arts and Aiki specific arts too, I am familiar with Nihon Goshin Aikido and how it is one of the only Aiki arts that uses English specifically because almost every other organization for Aikido, Daito ryu, Hakko ryu,Nami heiho around the world use Japanese terminology.
 

dvcochran

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Would you feel the same way if the person didn't understand what they taught enough to be able to apply the technique? I'm not talking about just repeating how they told a technique is applied. I mean actually apply it.
Agree, however speaking a technique and applying/performing a technique are two completely different things. It is fine if they are closely connected by a persons/schools/systems preference but not at all necessary to the learning.
You are never going to defeat an opponent by loudly saying 'front kick' or 'ap chagi'.
I am sure I use Korean terminology technical terms more than our GM does in class. But when he goes into detailed explanation get ready for a ton of Korean term reference.
 
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