How were you taught to move in stances?

[GojuTommy]

In my organization we like many other places ive seen spent a lot of time cumulatively walking up and down the mat in the various stances.

For us we were taught that our head should remain level as we move through our stances. So if we’re walking in zenkutsu dachi, your front leg remains bent until the rear foot comes level with it at which point the (previously) front straightens to push you forward.

Just curious if this is how everyone else learned to do these exercises.

 

[Gyakuto]

We did a similar thing (Wado Ryu) but adding punches to the movement and called it ‘kihon’! So zenkutsudachi we performed Junzuki, up and down the dojo. The more ‘exotic‘ stances were practised, initially, in the basic ‘Pinan’ kata, but always an upper limb technique with stancing. They were pretty much ‘left behind’ when seishan-dachi (tate and yoko) was introduced via seishin kata at 2nd Kyu grade. Seishan-dachi and variations thereof- seem to be the absolute essential stance for Wado Ryu.

 

[GojuTommy]

We did a similar thing (Wado Ryu) but adding punches to the movement and called it ‘kihon’! So zenkutsudachi we performed Junzuki, up and down the dojo. The more ‘exotic‘ stances were practised, initially, in the basic ‘Pinan’ kata, but always an upper limb technique with stancing. They were pretty much ‘left behind’ when seishan-dachi (tate and yoko) was introduced via seishin kata at 2nd Kyu grade. Seishan-dachi and variations thereof- seem to be the absolute essential stance for Wado Ryu.

Were you taught that your head is to remain level as you moved?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Were you taught that your head is to remain level as you moved?

While I teach CMA, I do also teach my students to ”pick a working altitude and stay there” meaning, head stays level while moving the stance.

 

[Gyakuto]

Were you taught that your head is to remain level as you moved?

Yes, the (probably spurious) rational being that moving one’s centre of mass up and down is a waste of energy compared to using ones legs to keep level, but also, aesthetically, it looks nicer to glide around! Mirrors were very useful training aids too. Wado Ryu doesn’t tend to use the deep stances of some other styles, so level heads is a little easier to achieve. Some kata techniques might involve the bobbing up and down of one’s centre of mass….like a downward hammer fist strike, and this trained body/arm coordination.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Same here. Moved around in various stances, but primarily the half-moon stance (hangetsu dachi), and one of the main things that was focused on was keeping our stance/head/body level throughout.

 

[Gyakuto]

Same here. Moved around in various stances, but primarily the half-moon stance (hangetsu dachi), and one of the main things that was focused on was keeping our stance/head/body level throughout.

Wado Ryu’s Seishan dachi is similar to Hangetsu Dachi just taken back a notch or two! It was a bit of a revelation to me when seishan dachi was described as the basis of more advanced practitioners. I began seeing it and it’s subtle variations everywhere, even in other martial arts and sports! It’s really comfortable and effortless as a ‘fighting stance’ and affords rapid movements, kicks from front and back legs and body rotations for evasion.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Wado Ryu’s Seishan dachi is similar to Hangetsu Dachi just taken back a notch or two! It was a bit of a revelation to me when seishan dachi was described as the basis of more advanced practitioners. I began seeing it and it’s subtle variations everywhere, even in other martial arts and sports! It’s really comfortable and effortless as a ‘fighting stance’ and affords rapid movements, kicks from front and back legs and body rotations for evasion.

I don't think I ever learned Seishan dachi as a static stance (wonders of an 'eclectic' karate system), but I did learn it as footwork essentially. Not somewhere you stay, but a way to move around your opponents before returning to another stance-in the same way that kosa dachi is often taught.

Which is fine to me. With the exception of a very few stances, they're not meant to be places to stay IMO. Most stances should be transitional in nature, it's just that they're easier to teach/learn as static.

 

[Dirty Dog]

We teach students to stay level when performing forms. Because that is what the organization wants. Outside of forms, movement is done in whatever manner seems best for the circumstances.

 

[GojuTommy]

This is a thing I never really questioned so I’m curious what explanations everyone was given, as I’m seeing major pitfalls in that method of movement.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I'm not a karate practitioner, although I've taken a few classes along the way. What I would teach my students is to step with a consistent head level - unless you have some reason not to.

So, change the head level to shoot for a low takedown. Change the head level to jab to the body. Change the head level to duck a punch. Change the head level to fake a shot or a low punch and then come back up to deliver a head punch. Change the head level because you are powering your punch with a drop step. Change the head level for all sorts of reasons, as long as it's intentional. But don't change your head level just because you're walking.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

This is a thing I never really questioned so I’m curious what explanations everyone was given, as I’m seeing major pitfalls in that method of movement.

I've got two answers, which personally both seem a bit weak to me, but they're the best that I've got.

The first is that it's a way to strengthen your legs. if you keep a low stance, and have to keep it low while moving around, you'll get stronger leg muscles. If this were the case though, I'd assume instructors would mention that it's not for practical application, which in my experience didn't happen.

The second is that it's only meant as a beginner training tool. You learn to stay level, because that means you won't be leaning over when moving through your stances, and keep balance. Then after a while you'd move on to staying level with a low stance while moving, a mid stance and a high stance. Then after a while you would also learn how to transition between multiple heights without leaning/bending/losing balance at all.
Which to me would actually be a pretty good way to teach it...but it's not what happened in my experience, and I haven't seen anyone discuss that, or any videos of that being taught/used online. At least in karate.

 

[Buka]

Initially, I learned movement in stances from Sanchin. After six months I learned from boxing, kick boxing, Karate and sparring in all of them.

 

[GojuTommy]

I've got two answers, which personally both seem a bit weak to me, but they're the best that I've got.

The first is that it's a way to strengthen your legs. if you keep a low stance, and have to keep it low while moving around, you'll get stronger leg muscles. If this were the case though, I'd assume instructors would mention that it's not for practical application, which in my experience didn't happen.

The second is that it's only meant as a beginner training tool. You learn to stay level, because that means you won't be leaning over when moving through your stances, and keep balance. Then after a while you'd move on to staying level with a low stance while moving, a mid stance and a high stance. Then after a while you would also learn how to transition between multiple heights without leaning/bending/losing balance at all.
Which to me would actually be a pretty good way to teach it...but it's not what happened in my experience, and I haven't seen anyone discuss that, or any videos of that being taught/used online. At least in karate.

Yeah the first one is about the most viable excuse I can come up with.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

if you keep a low stance, and have to keep it low while moving around, you'll get stronger leg muscles.

Not only you can build strong leg muscles, you can also develop good flexibility too.

This clip is a good training. It can give you flexibility, strong leg, and long distance forward footwork.

 

[GojuTommy]

Not only you can build strong leg muscles, you can also develop good flexibility too.

This clip is a good training. It can give you flexibility, strong leg, and long distance forward footwork.

Stretching is probably much better for flexibility

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Stretching is probably much better for flexibility

Lower your garage door to about waist height. Try to use this move to move your body under and through the garage door. You will find a lot of good benefit from this training.

 

[Gyakuto]

I don't think I ever learned Seishan dachi as a static stance (wonders of an 'eclectic' karate system), but I did learn it as footwork essentially. Not somewhere you stay, but a way to move around your opponents before returning to another stance-in the same way that kosa dachi is often taught.

Which is fine to me. With the exception of a very few stances, they're not meant to be places to stay IMO. Most stances should be transitional in nature, it's just that they're easier to teach/learn as static.

There has to be a ‘wait and see’ stance though, otherwise you’d be constantly moving around…that would look odd! What sort of wait and see stance do you use?

On a tangent, you ever see old footage of high grade practitioners fighting, the don’t bounce around as you often see in competitions. Isn’t the energy used in bouncing around counter the energy saving strategy of keeping one’s head level when transitioning between stances?😀 Instead, in Wado Ryu at least, they use this ‘creeping footwork’ with the toes being contracted and flexed alternately and rotation about the ankles to alter their distance.

 

[Gyakuto]

There has to be a ‘wait and see’ stance though, otherwise you’d be constantly moving around…that would look odd! What sort of wait and see stance do you use?

On a tangent, you ever see old footage of high grade practitioners fighting, the don’t bounce around as you often see in competitions. Isn’t the energy used in bouncing around counter the energy saving strategy of keeping one’s head level when transitioning between stances?😀 It is certainly tiring to bounce around! Instead, in Wado Ryu at least, they use this ‘creeping footwork’ with the toes being contracted and flexed alternately and rotation about the ankles to alter their distance.

 

[Gyakuto]

I've got two answers, which personally both seem a bit weak to me, but they're the best that I've got.

The first is that it's a way to strengthen your legs. if you keep a low stance, and have to keep it low while moving around, you'll get stronger leg muscles. If this were the case though, I'd assume instructors would mention that it's not for practical application, which in my experience didn't happen.

Yes, even practitioners of old (that’s pre-1975 😉) had much better ways of strengthening the legs.

The second is that it's only meant as a beginner training tool. You learn to stay level, because that means you won't be leaning over when moving through your stances, and keep balance. Then after a while you'd move on to staying level with a low stance while moving, a mid stance and a high stance. Then after a while you would also learn how to transition between multiple heights without leaning/bending/losing balance at all.

I’m beginning to wonder if it’s actually more about aesthetics? As suggested by Tony Dismukes, sometimes you want to bob into- or even lean into a strike to add power or more likely increase range.