How to Spot a Phony Veteran Or False POW

[Bob Hubbard]

From http://www.sftt.org/roster.html
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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=+1] How to Spot a Phony Veteran Or False POW [/size][/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Editor's Note: If your organization or company is confronted by a self-proclaimed veteran or former POW, there is a simple process by which you can verify the information. In addition, several organizations listed here can provide useful support for validating the military service, decorations and wartime experiences of any self-proclaimed veteran.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Verifying a Veteran's Records[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1](1) Require a full set of identification papers and military documents before you agree to employ or deal work with the veteran.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Many would-be veterans simply fabricate their biographies from thin air, but others have been known to forge documents or even to commit "identity theft" of actual POWs or veterans. So it is necessary not only to check out his claims but to compare his documentation against that of the military archives.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]You should begin by informing the veteran that because all too many phony veterans have deceived the public in recent years about their wartime experiences, it is a sad necessity that you cannot accept his claim at face value, and have to confirm the veteran's identity and his official records before you may proceed. The first step is to obtain a transcript of his military service from the National Military Records Center in St. Louis, Mo. - the branch of the National Archives that handles all military personnel records.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]You should insist on the following from the claimant himself: A copy of birth certificate or passport, driver's license, Form DD-214 (summary of military service at discharge), and a copy of the General Order for each award or medal. You should obtain his Social Security number. [/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Meanwhile, you should familiarize yourself with basic military ranks issued by each service. They can be found as subordinate webpages at the Pentagon's DefenseLink Internet portal (www.defenselink.mil).[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1](2) Apply for his official military records from the National Personnel Records Center.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]You should require from him a letter authorizing you to receive a copy of his service records - including confidential medical information if relevant to the story -- from the NPRC, or have him fill out a Form 180 request for information. You can download a .pdf version of NARA Form 180 at (http://www.nara.gov/regional/mprsf180.html). If the veteran declines to do this, you have the option of calling off the article or proceeding anyway. [/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]But if you wish to proceed, the following information in every serviceman's file is releasable to the public under the federal Freedom of Information Act (See Chapter 11):[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Name
Age (date of birth)
Dates of service
Source of commission
Rank/grade and date attained
Marital status
Promotion sequence number
Salary*
Office phone number*
City/town and state of last known address and date of this address
Serial/service number (those issued prior to the use of the Social Security number as the service number)
Decorations and awards
Place of birth; date and geographical location of death; and place of burial+
Military and civilian education level
Photograph (or photocopy if only one photo is available)
Place of induction and separation
Duty assignments (including geographical location)
Dependents (including name, sex, and age)
Records of court-martial trial (unless classified)
Education/schooling (military)
Future assignments which have been finalized *
duty status # [/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Notes:
* These items obviously relate to active-duty personnel and are not likely to be found in the records at the NPRC.
# For records at the NPRC this generally means discharged or retired.
+ If person is deceased, these items also may generally be released.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Send your FOIA Request to the following address:[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]National Personnel Records Center
Military Personnel Records
9700 Page Ave.
St. Louis MO 63132-5100[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Caution: NPRC officials warn that there is usually a backlog of between 4-10 weeks for all requests due to the large volume received.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]One word of caution: Some phony POWs and false heroes have gone so far as to forge the documentation authorizing their medals (primarily in order to obtain VA benefits under false pretenses). It is not enough, for example, to take at face value the signed and chronologically numbered General Order document that stipulates the granting of a military medal. It is sometimes necessary to make a FOIA request to the National Archives and Records Service (www.nara.gov) or the historical branches of the specific military service involved.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]POW and Veterans Networks[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]One of the most effective organizations dedicated toward unmasking phony POWs and military heroes is the nonprofit POW Network. You can contact the organization by going to their website at (www.pownetwork.org) or call at (660) 928-3304. The POW Network contains a large archive of previously unmasked phony POWs, some of whom have attempted to dupe reporters, veterans groups or individuals in more than one location.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]The POW Network has assembled a number of official rosters which will be useful in determining the veracity of the veteran's claim, including[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]The PMSEA Roster of all Vietnam-era POWs
Roster of all Medal of Honor recipients and citations (Civil War to present)
Roster of all living Medal of Honor recipients
Legion of Valor website (Membership limited to recipients of the Medal of Honor, Distinguished Service Cross, Navy Cross, and Air Force Cross).[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]In addition, the POW Network has hyperlinks to a number of military alumni organizations and websites that also monitor false claimants, including the Army Ranger Association, Naval Special Warfare Command (SEALs), USS Pueblo incident and more.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Navy SEAL Veterans[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]For information on the Navy SEAL program -- the elite commando unit that attracts a large number of phonies -- contact the private organization cyberSEALS at www.cyberseals.org. Another networking source is nightscribe.com (www.nightscribe.com/Military/SEALs/wannabee_seals.htm) which has a useful roster of other activists dedicated to rooting out phony SEALs.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]The Phony-Hero Hunter[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Texas financial adviser B.G. "Jug" Burkett, a Vietnam veteran who served with the 199th Infantry Brigade, has become over the past decade a one-man research institution into the proliferation of phony POWs and military heroes. His 1998 book, Stolen Valor (Verity Press), should be on the desk of every reporter who may cover military or veterans issues. The 692-page book is not only a harsh indictment of how American society allowed the image of the Vietnam veteran to be hijacked by Hollywood and a long parade of criminals falsely posing as Vietnam veterans, it offers many case studies of how reporters not only fell for outrageously untrue stories, but in many cases refused to run corrections after the false veteran was later unmasked. In addition, Burkett has included in Stolen Valor the official Pentagon rosters of returned Vietnam POWs, as well as recipients of the Medal of Honor, Air Force Cross, Navy Cross and Army Distinguished Service Medal -- a ready checklist when approached by someone claiming such a distinction. To contact Burkett or to order a copy of Stolen Valor, contact his website at (www.stolenvalor.com). [/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Veterans Organizations and Military Unit Associations[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]In addition to the mainstay veterans organizations, many combat and support units assigned to Vietnam have active unit alumni associations that regularly host reunions and seminars. They can readily be located on the Internet through various web-rings dedicated to veterans affairs, and their records are invaluable in verifying or knocking down a veteran's claims. Moreover, you can easily find a veteran who is expert on the alleged incident or battle in which your would-be hero claims to have been involved.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]A roster of veterans association websites can be found at Military.com at http://www.military.com/UnReg/Association/1,11228,,00.html. [/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Military Awards and Decorations [/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]The nonprofit organization Hall of Heroes (www.hallofheroes.com) provides an online reference library explaining the background and history of each of the medals and awards from the armed services. It can be reached at http://www.homeofheroes.com/hallofheroes/1st_floor/pyramid/2h.html. [/size][/font]

 

[Tgace]

DD-214...DD-214....DD-214

A copy of this should tell you all.

 

[TonyM.]

Or you could simply ask them what unit they served with down to the squad and when and where they served. If they don't remember or you've never heard of the unit it's probably BS. If they claim to teach H to H to SF or Rangers you know it's BS. Note: some SF and Rangers do take classes on their own time off post. This is not teaching H to H to SF or the Rangers.

 

[Andrew Evans]

I believe the DD-214 contains all that information, where the veteran was stationed and what dates.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

That is just so, so sad. I hate that real vets and POW's have to be so scrutinized, because of other people, taking advantage.

 

[Andrew Evans]

I agree it's sad that REAL veterans are asked to prove it. I blame it on all the FAKE veterans who are out there. Myself, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Here's an interesting story about a woman who claimed she was on the Bataan Death March.

"For the last 12 years, Juanita Smith, 86, ran the Topeka YWCA’s teen pregnancy prevention program and was a recognized leader in the state capital, whose population is 124,000. But in June, Smith’s career came to an end because of a lie she had told for nearly 15 years: that she was a survivor of the Bataan Death March during World War II.

The Bataan Death March was among the most horrible experiences on the Pacific front during the war. Japanese forces took prisoner thousands of U.S. troops and military staff stationed in the Philippines, then forced them to march across brutal stretches of the country’s jungle regions. Women were routinely raped, and prisoners who fell out of line were shot. Of the roughly 70,000 people who were forced to march, about 54,000 survived.

Smith, who claimed she was a nurse in the U.S. Navy, has repeatedly and publicly told people that her inspiration to work with youth stemmed from her harrowing experience on one of the marches. The Topeka Capital-Journal ran a profile of her in May. Responding to calls questioning the story’s veracity, the paper discovered that no record of Smith existed in POW registries or as a nurse at that time.

Smith admitted the fabrication and resigned. Capital-Journal Managing Editor Anita Miller also resigned as a result of the story."

The WHOLE community brought her story hook, line, and sinker for several years. Personally, I think it's a shame that the managing editor and an excellent reporter who were involved in the story that ran in May was used as scapegoats. Also, to give credit to Ms. Juanita Smith, she really made a positive difference in a lot of lives.

Unfortunately, lies tend to have a snowball effect. Yes folks, the story gets weirder but I have to admit I am impress by those who saw the good in Ms. Smith.

See http://www.aiipowmia.com/inter24/in040706bataandm.html for more...

 

[Marcus Buonfiglio]

If they claim to teach H to H to SF or Rangers you know it's BS. Note: some SF and Rangers do take classes on their own time off post. This is not teaching H to H to SF or the Rangers.

Greetings,
Good information in this thread. In fact I wish I had known about it during the research we in the UKF did to ferret out someone claiming bogus exploits. We were still able to accomplish the task but this info would have made it much easier. One note to Tony, My instructor and senior teaching Black Belt of the Universal Kenpo Federation is Michael Robert Pick (USMC RET). He is the primary combatives instructor for US Army SF 101 Airborne 10th group out of Ft. Carson Co. I have assisted him on several occasions at the 10th group compound working with the fine men of that group. This is officially sanctioned and contracted and is the only CQC being taught at that facility. Whereas although this endorsement is difficult to get it is legitimately obtainable and therefore if the person claims it, it is possible that it is true. A red flag? Most definitely! But one that will take some digging to verify. Once again, great information on this thread gentlemen.

Regards
Marcus Buonfiglio
Universal Kenpo Federation

 

[treksinthesiddhis]

Greetings,
He is the primary combatives instructor for US Army SF 101 Airborne 10th group out of Ft. Carson Co.

This is the type of comment that breeds mistrust of peoples military background and/or affiliation. I am not disputing your claim brother, but there is no 101st Airborne 10th SF group. The 2nd and 3rd Battalions of the 10th SFG(abn) are at Ft. Carson yes, but they are in no way shape or form affiliated with the 101st airborne infantry unit. (There are also no 101st units or detachments based out of ft. carson) If you have been there and worked with oda guys from 10th group on combatives, how could you think they were 101st airborne affiliated? They don't have screaming eagles on their uniforms, nor is there ANY 101st airborne insignia floating around the base in terms of sinage etc... Again, not calling you out, just curious about your mistake.


Namaste
-Rob

 

[shane23ss]

I have to throw my opinion in here as a veteran.

1) The DD Form 214. This will tell you most of what you want to know, considering it was updated properly prior to the person leaving service. Be careful what you ask a veteran for. Some information is considered illegal for you to ask for.

2) H to H instructor for SF. There are several H to H instructors for SF. One of my close friends is a H to H instructor for 5th SF Group out of Ft. Campbell, KY. I know this because I was stationed with the 101st Airborne Division , (which are ONLY stationed out of Ft. Campbell, KY, not Ft. Carson) for 5 years and have trained with him on several occasions.

If anyone has any question about me verifying this, just send me a PM and I will be glad to square you away.

Yours truly,
Shane

 

[Marcus Buonfiglio]

I am not disputing your claim brother, but there is no 101st Airborne 10th SF group. The 2nd and 3rd Battalions of the 10th SFG(abn) are at Ft. Carson yes, but they are in no way shape or form affiliated with the 101st airborne infantry unit. (There are also no 101st units or detachments based out of ft. carson) If you have been there and worked with oda guys from 10th group on combatives, how could you think they were 101st airborne affiliated? They don't have screaming eagles on their uniforms, nor is there ANY 101st airborne insignia floating around the base in terms of sinage etc... Again, not calling you out, just curious about your mistake.


Namaste
-Rob

Thank you rob. You are absolutely correct. I reread what I wrote and am floored at my mistake. It should have read Martial Arts, Combative, and Close Quarter Combat instructor for Special Forces, 10th Group (Airborne), United States Army (not 101st airborne) Thank you for the correction and my sincere apologies gentlemen. I am usually not so lax in my proofing. I know the difference and was thinking one and writing the other. Inexcusable I know but an honest mistake.The full bio of Michael PicK can be read at this address. It includes his military history http://www.ukfkenpo.com/pg/pick_autobi.html

Regards
Marcus Buonfiglio
Universal Kenpo Federation

 

[treksinthesiddhis]

Thank you rob. You are absolutely correct. I reread what I wrote and am floored at my mistake. It should have read Martial Arts, Combative, and Close Quarter Combat instructor for Special Forces, 10th Group (Airborne), United States Army (not 101st airborne) Thank you for the correction and my sincere apologies gentlemen. I am usually not so lax in my proofing. I know the difference and was thinking one and writing the other. Inexcusable I know but an honest mistake.The full bio of Michael PicK can be read at this address. It includes his military history http://www.ukfkenpo.com/pg/pick_autobi.html

Regards
Marcus Buonfiglio
Universal Kenpo Federation

Thanks for the update and the info... great read on the bio btw! Maybe i will have the privillage to meet michael at some point. I will be attending selection and (if i pass :btg: ) be in the pipeline to go operational with 20th group by 2007. Does he ever do army h to h schools or work with other groups?

Namaste
-Rob

 

[Marcus Buonfiglio]

Thanks for the update and the info... great read on the bio btw! Maybe i will have the privillage to meet michael at some point. I will be attending selection and (if i pass :btg: ) be in the pipeline to go operational with 20th group by 2007. Does he ever do army h to h schools or work with other groups?

Namaste
-Rob

It is my understanding that because 10th is the mountain group they have several groups as well as other branches of SF filter through his training program as they filter through 10th for their mountain training. As a result of this he has been requested to expand his training into several of these groups. If you want me to I can pass on your email address to him with the request of the groups he currently trains. He told me once but I can't remember exactly and don't want to screw up.(again LOL) Let me know and I will be happy to oblige. Good luck in your pursuits.

Marcus Buonfiglio

 

[Andrew Evans]

Folks,

I lived in Colorado Springs during the 90's and still know some military personnel there. Anyway, I was curious about Mr. Pick and yeah, he checks out. :asian:

Marcus,

I never had the privilege of seeing Mr. Pick's material but if you ever get the chance, please visit Sensei John Petrone of the Defense Institute and tell me how their stuff compares. http://www.defenseinstitute.com/index.htm

I've trained with Sensei John and personally feel that he is the badest mofo in the Springs. That's saying a lot as there are many talented martial artists in that city.

Respectfully,
Andrew

 

[bdparsons]

Greetings,
Good information in this thread. In fact I wish I had known about it during the research we in the UKF did to ferret out someone claiming bogus exploits. We were still able to accomplish the task but this info would have made it much easier. One note to Tony, My instructor and senior teaching Black Belt of the Universal Kenpo Federation is Michael Robert Pick (USMC RET). He is the primary combatives instructor for US Army SF 101 Airborne 10th group out of Ft. Carson Co. I have assisted him on several occasions at the 10th group compound working with the fine men of that group. This is officially sanctioned and contracted and is the only CQC being taught at that facility. Whereas although this endorsement is difficult to get it is legitimately obtainable and therefore if the person claims it, it is possible that it is true. A red flag? Most definitely! But one that will take some digging to verify. Once again, great information on this thread gentlemen.

Regards
Marcus Buonfiglio
Universal Kenpo Federation

As a veteran myself I have one quick note concerning your post. Let me first state I have nothing but the utmost respect for Mr. Pick and I thank him for his military service.

You state that Mr. Pick is "USMC RET". This is the common notation for someone who has retired with full pension after at least 20 years service. In reading the "The Journey" I learned of Mr. Pick's service in Vietnam, but I don't think he retired from the Corps. If I'm mistaken please let me know, just want to get it straight.

No disrespect intended, just a matter of semantics.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute

 

[theletch1]

To get this thread back to topic...I'm sitting here looking at my DD-214. It does give any information that would be required to verify a persons status as a veteran, including dates of service, campaigns, awards, rank at discharge and whether the discharge was honorable or otherwise.

 

[Marcus Buonfiglio]

[

You state that Mr. Pick is "USMC RET". This is the common notation for someone who has retired with full pension after at least 20 years service. In reading the "The Journey" I learned of Mr. Pick's service in Vietnam, but I don't think he retired from the Corps. If I'm mistaken please let me know, just want to get it straight.

No disrespect intended, just a matter of semantics.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute[/QUOTE]

Greetings Mr. Parsons,
Once again I stand corrected by this board’s diligence. Although, as you say it is a matter of semantics it is important in this context to be correct in my dissemination of information. I again know the difference as my father retired from 20yrs 6 months from active duty in the USAF. My statement should have read "Mr. Pick is a former Marine" He refers to himself as a former Marine and does not like the term "ex Marine" "Once a Marine always a Marine"
In my haste of writing I did not proof what I wrote. I will be more attentive in the future. Thank you again. I sincerely appreciate the diligence.

Marcus Buonfiglio

 

[loki09789]

I have to throw my opinion in here as a veteran.

1) The DD Form 214. This will tell you most of what you want to know, considering it was updated properly prior to the person leaving service. Be careful what you ask a veteran for. Some information is considered illegal for you to ask for.

2) H to H instructor for SF. There are several H to H instructors for SF. One of my close friends is a H to H instructor for 5th SF Group out of Ft. Campbell, KY. I know this because I was stationed with the 101st Airborne Division , (which are ONLY stationed out of Ft. Campbell, KY, not Ft. Carson) for 5 years and have trained with him on several occasions.

If anyone has any question about me verifying this, just send me a PM and I will be glad to square you away.

Yours truly,
Shane

Doing a one time shake and bake seminar for H2H or what ever also doesn't make you a 'military instructor' because the only people who can claim that description with any authenticity are military personnel that are assigned that job in their orders ("Drill Instructor", "Primary Marksmanship Instructor") and such.

Reputation building by inflating reality or creating reality is as old as story telling itself.

The DD214 is the simplest and best way if it is an official function (hiring for a job, attending seminar and you want to authenticate before you are paying them money....), but if it is just in conversation it may be tough if you don't know enough about the different branches of service or the slang terms of a certain time period/operational theater.

I spent 13 years combined USMC/USA(National Guard) and a someone who claimed to be a Coastie could probably fool me at least partially until I could check with known Coasties to check the story. THe jargon is different, the rank is different and the locations might be very different....

In the long run, the truth will come out though.

 

[shane23ss]

Doing a one time shake and bake seminar for H2H or what ever also doesn't make you a 'military instructor' because the only people who can claim that description with any authenticity are military personnel that are assigned that job in their orders ("Drill Instructor", "Primary Marksmanship Instructor") and such.

Reputation building by inflating reality or creating reality is as old as story telling itself.

The DD214 is the simplest and best way if it is an official function (hiring for a job, attending seminar and you want to authenticate before you are paying them money....), but if it is just in conversation it may be tough if you don't know enough about the different branches of service or the slang terms of a certain time period/operational theater.

I spent 13 years combined USMC/USA(National Guard) and a someone who claimed to be a Coastie could probably fool me at least partially until I could check with known Coasties to check the story. THe jargon is different, the rank is different and the locations might be very different....

In the long run, the truth will come out though.

I agree with your post here. I do want to say however, that the instructor I am speaking of is in fact a "full time" instructor of SF. He is a retired (when I say retired, I mean 24 years active duty, then retired) CSM from the Army. He instructs Judo 5 days a week, Monday thru Friday, at the SF compound from 0630 to 0800. He has a contract with the DoD to do so. If anyone wants more info on this, then PM me and I will be happy to give you his info.