How to grip a jian

Old Iowa Man

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Not disputing any of that but a Dao is more for slashing and hacking where a Jian is more for stabbing and controlled cutting. Also a Jian tends to be more fragile than a Dao, but that is not saying a jian is fragile just that a Dao tends to be a heavier blade. But you are absolutely correct, spending $20,000 on a Katana you do not know how to use is not going to help you any more or less than the $20.00 Machette
You're right - I just picked Katana as it's what came to mind - OIM
 
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The jian is not a blocking clashing weapon like the katana. In a katana fight depending on school you would attempt to either A. Cut down the opponent before they cut you down. Or B. Clash blades in a motion similar to swinging a sledge hammer overpowering your opponent. This is a dueling weapon. The Jian on the other hand is a touch feel sincitivity weapon you would touch the opponents weapon or body and by using the knowledge of how a person moves there arm and hand know exactly where they could move the weapon pin trap and strike. That is why you see the hands and feet used in the forms of jian where both hands would be on a katana. They are both a formidable weapon in there own right but it's classically know that jian and rapers are a more battlefield weapon because they lend the user more options.
 

Tony Dismukes

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In a katana fight depending on school you would attempt to either A. Cut down the opponent before they cut you down. Or B. Clash blades in a motion similar to swinging a sledge hammer overpowering your opponent.

Perhaps one of the practitioners of Japanese sword arts can chime in here, but "clashing blades similar to swinging a sledge hammer" is not anything I've seen in normal katana use.

They are both a formidable weapon in there own right but it's classically know that jian and rapers are a more battlefield weapon because they lend the user more options.

I don't know anything about the jian, but the rapier was not really a battlefield weapon at all. It was designed for civilian self-defense and dueling.
 

Xue Sheng

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I don't know anything about the jian, but the rapier was not really a battlefield weapon at all. It was designed for civilian self-defense and dueling.

Most Jians you see today are not battlefield either. However you go back to Qin and Han dynasties you see battlefield Jains and they have heavier wider blades than what you see today, also mostly bronze. The saying was, not to awfully long ago, possibly as recent as the Ming and Qing dynasties that the Jian was the weapon of the gentleman and the Dao was the weapon of the butcher. Meaning it took a lot more finesse and understanding to use a jain well as compared to a Dao.
 

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The jian is not a blocking clashing weapon like the katana. In a katana fight depending on school you would attempt to either A. Cut down the opponent before they cut you down. Or B. Clash blades in a motion similar to swinging a sledge hammer overpowering your opponent. This is a dueling weapon. The Jian on the other hand is a touch feel sincitivity weapon you would touch the opponents weapon or body and by using the knowledge of how a person moves there arm and hand know exactly where they could move the weapon pin trap and strike. That is why you see the hands and feet used in the forms of jian where both hands would be on a katana. They are both a formidable weapon in there own right but it's classically know that jian and rapers are a more battlefield weapon because they lend the user more options.
Just no to all of this. By the way I practice both jian and kenjutsu.
 

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Yes, and there is the distinction between a jian meant for the battlefield, as you describe, vs. a jian meant for personal defense carried by a civilian. The latter can be lighter and less robust, it does not need to withstand the vigors of the battlefield, nor generally would it need to defeat armor.
 

Flying Crane

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Yes, and there is the distinction between a jian meant for the battlefield, as you describe, vs. a jian meant for personal defense carried by a civilian. The latter can be lighter and less robust, it does not need to withstand the vigors of the battlefield, nor generally would it need to defeat armor.
I was responding to Xue here.
 

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The jian is not a blocking clashing weapon like the katana. In a katana fight depending on school you would attempt to either A. Cut down the opponent before they cut you down. Or B. Clash blades in a motion similar to swinging a sledge hammer overpowering your opponent. This is a dueling weapon. The Jian on the other hand is a touch feel sincitivity weapon you would touch the opponents weapon or body and by using the knowledge of how a person moves there arm and hand know exactly where they could move the weapon pin trap and strike. That is why you see the hands and feet used in the forms of jian where both hands would be on a katana. They are both a formidable weapon in there own right but it's classically know that jian and rapers are a more battlefield weapon because they lend the user more options.
In jian there are parries, redirecting, I can't speak for all jian forms but I guess a block may be in there. I can not think of anyone in any Japanese sword school using a sledge hammer type of action. Jian and rapiers I dont really consider a battlefield weapon compared to say a dao or a spear
 

Xue Sheng

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In jian there are parries, redirecting, I can't speak for all jian forms but I guess a block may be in there. I can not think of anyone in any Japanese sword school using a sledge hammer type of action. Jian and rapiers I dont really consider a battlefield weapon compared to say a dao or a spear

Blocks are there but tend to be done towards the hilt (same with the Dao by the way, this is one reason the entire length of the dao blade is not sharp) and many of those, if not all in someone "Highly skilled" with a jian are deflections and or redirections. But this is the thinner more modern version, not necessarily the jain of old, think Qin, Han, etc.
 
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If I was to grip a sword I would probably use the tool I used the most in my kung-fu. Or the character Sun fist. And would probably use the moon hand to hold the scabbard. Or as close to them as possible. I would move the sword in the moon shape and the scabbard in straight lines like the sun footwork. I would probably use sun footwork to! It is grasp sparrow tail on the four directions and fair lady weaves a shuttle on the diagonals. Accompanied by the circle walk if you want. I would be more concerned about keeping the opponents sword under the guard in roll back and blade above the opponents sword in move forward. And use the yin power arc to switch sides above and yang below. On the right to left I would go high, and left to right I would go low. To follow the classic of if solid on the left make the right dissappear. I would use the 6 gates 36 points of the body, 48 points of the limbs, 18 techniques of the arms and legs to accomplish cohesion. So my answer would be I would use the character sun fist to hold the jian.
 

Xue Sheng

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I would use the 6 gates 36 points of the body, 48 points of the limbs, 18 techniques of the arms and legs to accomplish cohesion. So my answer would be I would use the character sun fist to hold the jian.

You do realize that without context, that makes no sense. I am assuming the 18 techniques means Lohan. 36 points of the body, 48 points of the limbs can be a reference to acupuncture techniques, Sun fist is found in various styles and it is not the same and then there is Sun style taijiquan too, which I think is what you are referring to. And the 6 gates, I think I know what you are talking about, but I am not sure how many others will and I have 2 different possibilities for that which also depend on lineage and style. Terminology is nice when talking to those that know it, but to those that don't it can be gibberish.
 
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Pretty much that is the framework for the 108 postures someone who knows them and can add would know what I'm talking about without much deduction.
 

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If I was to grip a sword I would probably use the tool I used the most in my kung-fu. Or the character Sun fist. And would probably use the moon hand to hold the scabbard. Or as close to them as possible. I would move the sword in the moon shape and the scabbard in straight lines like the sun footwork. I would probably use sun footwork to! It is grasp sparrow tail on the four directions and fair lady weaves a shuttle on the diagonals. Accompanied by the circle walk if you want. I would be more concerned about keeping the opponents sword under the guard in roll back and blade above the opponents sword in move forward. And use the yin power arc to switch sides above and yang below. On the right to left I would go high, and left to right I would go low. To follow the classic of if solid on the left make the right dissappear. I would use the 6 gates 36 points of the body, 48 points of the limbs, 18 techniques of the arms and legs to accomplish cohesion. So my answer would be I would use the character sun fist to hold the jian.
I would simply grip the hilt comfortably with my right hand and the scabbard in my left, and draw the jian from the scabbard.

Then I would take a breath and a mental pause to evaluate my situation. And drive the point of that blade right up into the guts of that fool bastard who dared to stand against me.
 
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I don't think I would ever use a sword in self defense a gun is much more practical. Swords and martial arts training is to teach you situational awareness, and lin Kong Jin or how to use distance as a weapon in positional kung-fu. The sword is a training device so is almost everything in martial arts they teach you different aspects of nature that are the same, that way you can learn to function according to the natural way which is not what people naturally do. Sun fist is the same fist you use for sun and moon salute or pounding mortar and pestle.
 

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