How much pain in your class? Any KO's??

[swiftpete]

Just wondered what you thought of this out there? How much pain do you have in your classes? Ever see anyone get knocked out, through pressure point striking or manipulation, or maybe just strikes, maybe during grappling etc?
In my class we do hit each other pretty hard and the black belts especially get hit pretty hard by the instructor. No one gets injured but we're all getting used to getting knocked about. Most of us at some point or other have been, if not knocked out, then not far from it/stunned and of course in pain from locks, chokes etc. Most of our near KO's are from pressure point stuff nowadays though, strange how easy it is to just lose it when u get in that much pain, after a while you just don't feel it anymore as you just fade out. During our classes there is generally a fair bit of noise from people in pain at various points although no one has anything to prove, we're all friends and enjoy the training. I personally don't react to pain anywhere near like i used to when i first started training, it doesn't affect me as much now.
It does put some people off though when watching our class with a view to joining though.
So how do you train out there then? how does your class compare? Not trying to say how hardcore we are or anything, just wondered how different classes/arts trained really as far as getting hit/hurt etc goes. Well it's time for me to go to my class now so I'll see what people have to say about it when i get back!

 

[dubljay]

I have trained pretty hard. It is a learning expereince, but I definately don't think its for everyone. There are a couple problems I see with training hard, and enduring pain while training. When training like that you are expecting to get hit, you are mentally prepared for it. There is value in that, but in a self defense situation you aren't likely to be completely mentally prepared for that first blow, so it will hurt more than you think (learned that one the hard way). Secondly, most of the people I have seen train like that think that they should ignore their body, and "just learn to deal with it" and this is the completely wrong idea. If you bust yourself up so bad while training what good are you going to be should you have to defend yourself. The feeling of pain, knowing you have to block may give you a 'realistic' sense to your training but in some senses it is far from realistic if you spend most of your time nursing bruised ribs, a swolen hand, ect.

If you want to train hard, thats fine, just don't lose sight of why you train. I know several people that started to train like that, hoping for more 'realism' and all they ended up with was machoism. It quickly became about enduring pain, not learning to defend yourself.

Just my opinion

-Josh

 

[kenpochad]

no KO's to go hard it has to mutual there are only two guys in my class that will go hard with me I have had a cracked nose, cracked one and completely broke one Id like to think I have better control than that now

 

[MJS]

Its good to pick up the pace during training from time to time, but like dubljay said, taking care of those 'training injuries' can in the long run, be more counterproductive IMO. I certainly don't think that every class should be so hard core that the students are walking out with broken bones or noses.

Mike

 

[kenpochad]

Its good to pick up the pace during training from time to time, but like dubljay said, taking care of those 'training injuries' can in the long run, be more counterproductive IMO. I certainly don't think that every class should be so hard core that the students are walking out with broken bones or noses.

Mike

your right

But sometimes my friend and I just like to pound it out you now some times you just feel a little spunky. I now it sounds
inmature but I wounder some times if you cant take a hit how can you defend your self.

 

[MJS]

your right

But sometimes my friend and I just like to pound it out you now some times you just feel a little spunky. I now it sounds
inmature but I wounder some times if you cant take a hit how can you defend your self.

I agree! Like I said, I personally see nothing wrong with picking up the pace a bit. I agree 100% with your last post, that it should be a mutual agreement. I do think that people should be used to contact, as this will be something that, if the time comes to defend themselves outside of the dojo, they will be glad that they did. Bumps, bruises, cuts and scrapes are all part of training. On the other hand, we all have jobs that we need to go to the next day. Imagine the look on peoples faces if we always walked into work bandaged up! :xtrmshock

 

[kenpochad]

I agree! Like I said, I personally see nothing wrong with picking up the pace a bit. I agree 100% with your last post, that it should be a mutual agreement. I do think that people should be used to contact, as this will be something that, if the time comes to defend themselves outside of the dojo, they will be glad that they did. Bumps, bruises, cuts and scrapes are all part of training. On the other hand, we all have jobs that we need to go to the next day. Imagine the look on peoples faces if we always walked into work bandaged up! :xtrmshock

OOO I now all about that every one is all over me about my black eye that i have .
I got it in my BJJ be passing the other guys gard when i rolled him over his elbow
got me in the eye. sometime IT just happens

You you roll those new guys over and they flop around like fish out of water HA HA HA

 

[ppko]

this one is better answered by my students, there is lots of pain and we may KO someone once every 3 to 4 months

 

[chinto01]

I think that pain is a natural part of muscle development. I would say in out classes there is a fair amount of discomfort due to stance training and bunkai training. On kumite nights there is also some minor discomfort as you can imagine. We have yet to have any broken bones or knock outs (knock on wood).

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Blindside]

For the people who want to play hard, we get a fair amount of injuries, this isn't a daily occurence, but a number of injuries pop up. Reoccurent injuries are fractured ribs and broken noses, I've never seen a KO, but standing TKOs aren't uncommon. I don't want to make is sound like this happens every week, it doesn't, but you can't spar with hard contact without some injuries.

Lamont

 

[swiftpete]

I have trained pretty hard. It is a learning expereince, but I definately don't think its for everyone. There are a couple problems I see with training hard, and enduring pain while training. When training like that you are expecting to get hit, you are mentally prepared for it. There is value in that, but in a self defense situation you aren't likely to be completely mentally prepared for that first blow, so it will hurt more than you think (learned that one the hard way). Secondly, most of the people I have seen train like that think that they should ignore their body, and "just learn to deal with it" and this is the completely wrong idea. If you bust yourself up so bad while training what good are you going to be should you have to defend yourself. The feeling of pain, knowing you have to block may give you a 'realistic' sense to your training but in some senses it is far from realistic if you spend most of your time nursing bruised ribs, a swolen hand, ect.

If you want to train hard, thats fine, just don't lose sight of why you train. I know several people that started to train like that, hoping for more 'realism' and all they ended up with was machoism. It quickly became about enduring pain, not learning to defend yourself.

Just my opinion

-Josh

I do agree with your machoism comment, i can't see the point of getting like that and of course injuries are never nice either. I know that getting hit for real is different from in class, but I would think that if you do get hit hard in class it's bound to prepare you for getting hit outside of class, as the shock/stun factor would hopefully be minimised, although not eliminated. That's been my exprience anyhow.
If you never knew what it was like to take a hit, the first time you get clocked for real would just put you out of action!
One of the guys in my class is like a rubber ball, no matter how hard he gets hit or whatever anyone does to him he just gets back up no probs. It has taken him about 12 years to get to that level but its always painful for me just to watch him getting hit! He just doesn't mind anymore, not a macho type guy at all, not very big and a nice bloke, you wouldn't know to look at him that he's like that.
I was talking to one of the new guys tonight in the pub after training about how you get used to the pain from being hit etc and it affects you less and less, he understood what I was saying but didn't really look like he got it.
Few more punches in the face and I'll make him see it from my point of view.
(joke!)

 

[evenflow1121]

I ve trained pretty hard and have seen people get knocked out by strikes. I had a few black eyes in my earlier years as well as bloody noses and pops. It happens, wild hits while sparring. This one guy some 10 years ago did a wheel kick and caught his partner right on the neck, rescue had to come, luckily he was ok, but a bit shaken up.

 

[swiftpete]

Yeah we were doing kicking defense in my class once. We don't generally do high kicks as attacks, but sometimes do defenses against them. Anyway my partner wasn't quite with it and my jumping spinning kick caught him in the neck. He dropped like a hot spud, but he did get up again after a bit thankfully!

 

[Grenadier]

It depends on the school, the style, and the instructor.

From my point of view, we will give each other some good thumps. If that also means knocking the wind out of someone, then so be it. If it means catching them with a cleanly executed kick, then so be it. There may even be a bloody lip, a swollen nose, or a black eye, if someone makes a mistake. Many times, the blame of the mistake isn't on the attacker, but rather the defender (leading with one's face, not keeping one's guard up, etc). I would like to think that we are "professionals" in terms of attitudes towards each other, and understand that we're going to take some bumps and bruises along the way.

However, where I would draw the line, is when people start throwing these techniques without regards to the intent to control them. If people are out to hurt each other just for the sake of seeing who is stronger, tougher, etc, that is not acceptable in my book. Broken bones might accidentally occur, but that should be a very rare occurrence, at best. If it happens on a more frequent basis, then I would call into question the ability of the student to control his techniques.

Remember, the above opinion that I have stated, is simply for what goes on in the dojos at which I train. I'm not going to tell a Kyokushin dojo, for example, the same thing, since it's their school, their style, their rules, their methods, and simply not my business to interfere in their matters.

 

[swiftpete]

I totally agree there is no place for showing off in training. It makes your training loads better if you can train with someone and not worry if you get it wrong or mess up somehow. That's what training's for after all, learning.

That's what i tell the new guys that start, sometimes they get frustrated if getting it wrong, but we're all there to learn and improve, everyone gets stuff wrong sometimes. So just keep on going and don't worry about it.

 

[searcher]

I have seen multiple KO's from an accidental standpoint. We have also have some broken bones and some pretty nasty cuts. Worst no-KO I ever saw was a junior rank adult take a jump spinning back kick to the forehead. He stopped coming after that.

We train pretty hard and go even harder in our sparring, but most injuries are a result of somebody with little experience trying something that they saw someone else doing, whether in the dojo or on T.V.

 

[Grenadier]

Remember, the above opinion that I have stated, is simply for what goes on in the dojos at which I train. I'm not going to tell a Kyokushin dojo, for example, the same thing, since it's their school, their style, their rules, their methods, and simply not my business to interfere in their matters.

Just a quick clarification...

I am not implying that Kyokushin lacks control as a style; merely that my opinion is solely limited to my own school. Feel free to substitute the name of any other martial arts style above.

 

[ginshun]

I would say that there is a fair amount of pain involved in our training, but not overly so. I've never seen a knockout, but have seen some pretty hard hits with people dazed and confused for a while (and been on the wrong end of a couple of myself). I would say that a lot of times I end up more sore the next day than I really think about being in pain during class. Last night we did some submision wrestling for the last about half hour of class. Not full speed, but pretty close. Last night I didn't really think too much about it, but today I am pretty sore in more than a few places.

I would say that probably the most common sorce of pain that I see is from getting strikes to the arms or getting grabbed real hard on the arms. I tend to forget to do it myself, but when our teacher is demonstrating stuff, it seems like every once in a while in the middle of a technique, he will find a way to grab my tricept and just bare down while moving me to demonstrate the incapacitation at the end of the technique. Sometimes it just kills.

Getting the wind knocked out of me from throws has also happened.

All in all I would say there is just enough pain in our classes to be good for us.

 

[CrankyDragon]

I was Uke on a leg sweep that went wrong, intead of one leg both my legs got caught and I was not in position to slap out, result was a square fall flat on my back that stuned me pretty good in addition to ringing the chit out of my bell, but I got back up and finished training. No biggie. Our art is not a sparing art anyway, so with the exceptions we seldom have injuries much less KOs. However, pain is a way of life in NGA, when you get torqued, you have to tap when pain is getting to the threshold limit. This lets the Naga know they are properly applying the technique, otherwise its all for no gain in your technique.

Andrew

 

[Cthulhu]

The instructors get some busted knuckles in our FMA class from new students with poor stick control. Usually doesn't hurt much anymore, which surprised me after a while. I'd take a nice whack to a finger and didn't realize I got hit until several minutes later when I noticed blood.

Some minor joint injuries, either from overzealous takedowns, or students not sharing pre-existing injuries before that particular joint got tweaked.

Couple of broken fingers. Couple of stitches. I don't think we've KO'd anybody.

Yet.

Cthulhu