How many rapier fencing styles are there?

[3d1l]

Hello,

Was doing a Google search and... well, you know, Google brings me here, so I'm glad to be here.

For whatever reason youtube recommended a video of historical rapier fencing. Those videos pick my curiosity and I was watching the videos mostly in spanish and they were fencing in a style that is call "vedadera destreza". But then I get another video of a fencing match between the spanish rapier fencing style vs the italian rapier fencing style and that really got my attention. So I was wondering what about French, Holy Roman Empire, English, rapier fencing styles etc. I have searched and searched but sadly I havn't been able to find any other videos but for Spanish and Italian styles. So my questions are; Are there other styles? If so can you please provide the links for videos of those other rapier fencing styles of other countries?

 

[jks9199]

There are many; not so much by nationality as by school, and often whether or not the maestre/master wrote about it. You might try searching for videos about Historical European Martial Arts or HEMA and rapier. We have a few members who are very knowledgable about HEMA. I hope they join in here.

 

[lklawson]

Hello,

Was doing a Google search and... well, you know, Google brings me here, so I'm glad to be here.

For whatever reason youtube recommended a video of historical rapier fencing. Those videos pick my curiosity and I was watching the videos mostly in spanish and they were fencing in a style that is call "vedadera destreza". But then I get another video of a fencing match between the spanish rapier fencing style vs the italian rapier fencing style and that really got my attention. So I was wondering what about French, Holy Roman Empire, English, rapier fencing styles etc. I have searched and searched but sadly I havn't been able to find any other videos but for Spanish and Italian styles. So my questions are; Are there other styles? If so can you please provide the links for videos of those other rapier fencing styles of other countries?

Like JKS says, only worse. Not only is there different "schools" but it also changes by time period. There are rapiers and then there are rapiers. "Rapier" is a fairly generic term and spans not only all of European geography, stretching as far as Russia (which can be reasonable argued is not European, per se) and spans as much as 200-300 years, depending on what definition you're using (I side much closer to 200 than three but there's an argument to be made).

And the later the time period, the more likely that they had all "influenced" each other. Rapier systems blended into each other, and the blended in to certain Sabre systems, because they're both "cut-and-thrust" weapons, just one a little more cut and the other little more thrust.

Even in the destreza "style" there were competing interpretations and "systems" (and a few duels over their arguments).

If you really want to have "different" systems, well, that's hard, but you might consider English Broadsword (the single-handed, basket hilted sword, not what people now mistakenly call a "broadsword") vs French Rapier from around 1600 or so.

So how many Rapier systems are there? Umm... One? ...with a bunch of different variations over time and place? Hundreds? It's a little like asking how many "races" of modern Homo Sapien are there. Ummm... One? with a bunch of different variations over time and place because, you know, we're all common ancestor related and intermixed?

Rapier? Most people will just generic it down to like "3" or something.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[3d1l]

jks9199 thanks
iklawson if I can only find that but for some reason I can't find anything with the word French Rapier on it.

When you mention different style within "destreza" you men "real" vs "vulgar"?

Anyway I got your point I will have to search over a specific period with very delimited criteria.

By the way one video I saw spanish vs italian was this:

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Like JKS says, only worse. Not only is there different "schools" but it also changes by time period. There are rapiers and then there are rapiers. "Rapier" is a fairly generic term and spans not only all of European geography, stretching as far as Russia (which can be reasonable argued is not European, per se) and spans as much as 200-300 years, depending on what definition you're using (I side much closer to 200 than three but there's an argument to be made).

And the later the time period, the more likely that they had all "influenced" each other. Rapier systems blended into each other, and the blended in to certain Sabre systems, because they're both "cut-and-thrust" weapons, just one a little more cut and the other little more thrust.

Even in the destreza "style" there were competing interpretations and "systems" (and a few duels over their arguments).

If you really want to have "different" systems, well, that's hard, but you might consider English Broadsword (the single-handed, basket hilted sword, not what people now mistakenly call a "broadsword") vs French Rapier from around 1600 or so.

So how many Rapier systems are there? Umm... One? ...with a bunch of different variations over time and place? Hundreds? It's a little like asking how many "races" of modern Homo Sapien are there. Ummm... One? with a bunch of different variations over time and place because, you know, we're all common ancestor related and intermixed?

Rapier? Most people will just generic it down to like "3" or something.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

FWIW, I'd personally take the approach a lot of people use with japanese sword styles. Yes, there's kenjutsu, and most (all, maybe?) japanese sword styles would fall under that. But then if you're asking about styles, you've got a different style for a bunch of different schools. So you've got Hoki-ryu, itto-ryu, niten ichi-ryu, and others, which are all probably considered kenjutsu, but each is their own distinct school with their own flairs and lineage.

It's been a couple years since I looked into that type of "Style" for either european or asian sword arts, but I'd bet that there's a comparison that could be made to the variations of rapier arts. And if not, people might be looking for it, which is why I've seen this question come up quite a few times.

 

[lklawson]

jks9199 thanks
iklawson if I can only find that but for some reason I can't find anything with the word French Rapier on it.

When you mention different style within "destreza" you men "real" vs "vulgar"?

La Verdadera Destreza; The True Skill - "Spanish Rapier" using "The Mystic Circle" (of which there were many). Most famously there was a rivalry between Carranza's destreza interpretation and Thibault's. There was on one single Spanish Circle.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk