How effective is Aikido?

[Tony]

I already study Kung Fu but I was thinking of taking up Aikido so that I can supplement my training with more locks, holds and throws! We have already done some of this in Kung Fu but not to any great extent!
I was wondering how effective Aikido could be in a real life or death situation or even as a way of avoiding conflict which I would prefer!
I know one of the famous exponents of Aikido is Steven Seagal who I think is awesome for someone of his build and now I see he is blending Aikido with Kung fu in his latest films!
But the problem is that most of the classes in my area run on the same nights as my Kung Fu class and I know of one that runs in my area on a Monday and another class aout 15 miles away that also runs on a Monday!

 

[MisterMike]

I would say go check out the school. There's a lot of variants of Aikido. Some teach a more street-style and others more of a "Do" style.

I think it takes longer to become proficient in using Aikido as a self-defense than say a karate style because they do not work with what I would deem realistic attacks until much later, if ever.

I have about 9 years Kenpo Karate experience with about 5 years Aikido/Aiki Jujutsu. I think your cross-training will benefit you more than staying with one style.

 

[theletch1]

Mike is right on the money with the idea that aikido is a very eclectic system. There are styles of aikido that do nothing but meditation all the way up to styles of aikido that should probably be more -jutsu that -do. Try a couple of different schools out and see which one feels right for you. As for learning to end a confrontation before it starts the theory and philosophy of aikido regarding redirection of energy will serve you well. One word of caution (another somewhat parroting of Mike) is that aikido does require a good deal of time to come to fruition both as a self defense and the deeper theory than some other arts. It's not something you'll pick up with one or two seminars but something that will require a good deal of time. I'm enjoying my time and am lucky enough to train with some very open minded people who get a kick out of experimenting with new stuff on our off time. Best of luck.

Mike,
I'm sure you've done this, but, during multiple attacker randori do you find yourself dealing with one attacker with aikido tech and using kenpo to keep others at a distance until you're ready to deal with them? I studied kenpo for 2 years before beginning aikido and have found that the two actually work very well together during multiples.

 

[MisterMike]

Hi Jeff,

I have pretty much put down the kenpo now. It was tough to turn off but I try to stick with one or the other. At my new dojo we probably do not do randori quite the same as most Aikido schools, as we are really Aiki-Jutsu.

Some drills concentrate only on Tai-Sabaki, so there is no real mixing in Kenpo there. What my Sensei keeps focusing on though is that all the arts have a base and when you begin to see it, you can go in and out of your previously learned techniques at will.

Technically there is nothing "wrong" with taking a technique from here and using it over there. But I think some schools will disagree with it. I went to an Aikido school once during college and they started a randori session and I entered into one uke with a heelpalm to the face. (This would take you off your feet at my old school) It really raised some eyebrows there

The thing is, there is similarity between the heel-palm strike and Irimi with a sword-arm if the footwork and tai-sabaki is right. But yes, to answer your question, I do see a benefit of using my Kenpo knowledge in the Aiki setting. Is it "cheating"? Hehe, well, I say, if it works go for it. I sort of look at Kenpo as a great library of atemi strikes for Aikido now.

 

[tshadowchaser]

It is always a wise idea to go into a new school /system with the mind set of a beginner. It will take time to learn what is expected and how to do what they do. Then it takes more time to learn to do the techs. in a timely and correct mannor. Then after more time you actully learn to do them as they are ment to be done.
Good luck Aikido is going to be fun and a learning experence unlike what you are now doing but both will be helpfull in life

 

[KyleShort]

Pardon me for saying, but you certainly do not need to train in aikido to become skilled at joint locking =) Most forms of kung fu have extensive training in Chi Na (joint locking and cavity press for control)...check out some Dr. Yang Jwing Ming books on the subject. If you do not train in this very much then you should consider asking your instructor for some more training in Chi Na.

Actually I have noticed that the Kung Fu schools that I have been exposed to do not put much emphasis on this, but most will recognize that the MA consists of Hand Striking, Kicking, Chi Na (grappling), Wrestling (throws/takedowns). This is even more interesting when you consider that the police and military tend to have extensive training in seizure and control (Chi Na).

Regarding Aikido,...if you are looking for a philosophy to help you avoid conflict and resolve it in non-physical ways then it is top notch. If you want a style to quickly train you in the raw combat skills to better survive a violent confrontation, Aikido is not the best choice. That's not to say that there are not Aikidoka that are skilled at quickly and efficiently eliminating the threat of an armed attacker etc...but that is not the primary focus of the art and such individuals are few and far between (assuming all that they train is "pure" Aikido).

 

[babaker]

Pardon me for saying, but you certainly do not need to train in aikido to become skilled at joint locking =) Most forms of kung fu have extensive training in Chi Na (joint locking and cavity press for control)...check out some Dr. Yang, Jwing Ming books on the subject. If you do not train in this very much then you should consider asking your instructor for some more training in Chi Na...........

.

Actually, I have found the supplimentary information found in Chin Na books has been very helpful in discovering the cause and effect of many secret techniques that are simply manipulations of the human body. Whether it is to suppliment Aikido training, Karate training, or whatever you are presently practicing, learning the points of the human body that react should be a primary study of all martial arts practitioners.

I have three or four books by Dr. Jwing Ming Yang, (Yeah, Yang is his last name), and he was originally recommended by one of my Aikido buddys who teaches self-defense for a living, even though he is teaching Aikido in his spare time also. Kind of like getting all the notes my first teacher had from his 14 years of training without putting in the time of day after day getting beat to a pulp to learn the hard way.

Anyway .... good reference material, and it does enlighten one to where some of the variations for techniques for Aikido and other arts come from in the study of the human body.

My advice is to do some Grappling, but if you like to respect your body and are intelligent/ old enough to forgo physical beatings that the younger body seems to enjoy, the gentleness of aikido practice will be about the most gentle way to learn joint locks, if you don't already have some jujitsu in your present practice. Don't get me wrong, I recommend practice in a variety of styles so that one can get a feel for what works for them to assemble the most efficient techniques that work for one.


%-} Harrrrr .... give'em the dirty capt'n !!

 

[MisterMike]

I've been to several Aikido schools and have never really heard any teachings about how to avoid conflict. While the art may represent it, I just NEVER had any oral teachings about blending, peace, harmony or how to use it in everyday life.

I just wonder how many aikido schools make it a point in class to talk about the philosophy, or if they just teach technique.

I'm not bashing, just curious.

 

[Tony]

Pardon me for saying, but you certainly do not need to train in aikido to become skilled at joint locking =) Most forms of kung fu have extensive training in Chi Na (joint locking and cavity press for control)...check out some Dr. Yang Jwing Ming books on the subject. If you do not train in this very much then you should consider asking your instructor for some more training in Chi Na.

Actually I have noticed that the Kung Fu schools that I have been exposed to do not put much emphasis on this, but most will recognize that the MA consists of Hand Striking, Kicking, Chi Na (grappling), Wrestling (throws/takedowns). This is even more interesting when you consider that the police and military tend to have extensive training in seizure and control (Chi Na).

Regarding Aikido,...if you are looking for a philosophy to help you avoid conflict and resolve it in non-physical ways then it is top notch. If you want a style to quickly train you in the raw combat skills to better survive a violent confrontation, Aikido is not the best choice. That's not to say that there are not Aikidoka that are skilled at quickly and efficiently eliminating the threat of an armed attacker etc...but that is not the primary focus of the art and such individuals are few and far between (assuming all that they train is "pure" Aikido).

Yes you are right Kung Fu does have Chin Na but we don't seem to do enough of that in my class! But who am I to question my Sifu's wisdom with his experience, nonetheless he is a good teacher! There are suppose to chin Na techniques within our forms and it is up to us to work on them enough so that we start to think and use the applicatioins of those forms for self defence!
I like the fact that Aikido is a peaceful Martial Art, together with its Philosophy and it just looks like such a beautiful Art! I would certainly like to maybe try out a few classes and see what they are like!

 

[theletch1]

Kyle, I don't know that there is anything such as "pure" aikido anymore. Most have evolved beyond what they originally were. Many have become more jutsu than do but retain the softer suffix while others have done away with most anything other than the meditation and philosophy. Aikido varies from dojo to dojo even within the same style and styles vary widely. As for only a few aikido-ka being able to defend themselves with it...well....I suppose that depends on the artist and the situation about as much as it does with any other art. I've sustained more injuries during aikido training than I did during my kenpo training. Don't be fooled by a lot of what you hear. While the "idea" of aikido is that it is a gentle art it can be, when used with intent, a very brutal and devastating art.

Mike, the conflict avoidance training is not something that we in nihon goshin set a pre-determined amount of time aside for during class but we do have the philosophy of conflict avoidance and how blending and redirection of energy in a verbal confrontation sprinkled in anectdotally (sp) and will usually sit seiza during the after training line up while Sensei discusses this aspect of our training for a moment or two. Nothing formal, I suppose, but training none the less.

 

[Yari]

I just wonder how many aikido schools make it a point in class to talk about the philosophy, or if they just teach technique.

I'm not bashing, just curious.

´

Not many in my opionen. But I think a lot of Aikido schools would let you figur it out, rather then pressing there idea on to you ! But try and talk to Aikido people, most won't have an idea, but there are indivuduals (sp?) that really have understood something.

/Yari

 

[Yari]

I like the fact that Aikido is a peaceful Martial Art, together with its Philosophy and it just looks like such a beautiful Art! I would certainly like to maybe try out a few classes and see what they are like!

You should try it out. It could work out very good for you!

But one area that could be a problem is how you move into a technique, or out of it. Aikido doesn't base it system on thecniques, but rather on how you move between them. So if the systems "dont fit" the training could clash.

But try, and learn. You'll always learn something, so it can only be good!


/Terje

 

[CrankyDragon]

The Aiki answer to your question would be...
Aikido is as effective as the Aikido-ka.

Sorry I didnt get more in depth, but ponder on that as your answer lies within.

Good luck,
Andrew

 

[Hand Sword]

When you get good at it, very effective! I've worked with many, beleive me, they can hang with any other style!

 

[samurai69]

When you get good at it, very effective!

Yep, i agree

, they can hang with any other style!

True, True






:supcool:

 

[jujutsu_indonesia]

I already study Kung Fu but I was thinking of taking up Aikido so that I can supplement my training with more locks, holds and throws! We have already done some of this in Kung Fu but not to any great extent!
I was wondering how effective Aikido could be in a real life or death situation or even as a way of avoiding conflict which I would prefer!
I know one of the famous exponents of Aikido is Steven Seagal who I think is awesome for someone of his build and now I see he is blending Aikido with Kung fu in his latest films!

train some more Kung Fu until you have very good fundamental skills, then learn Aikido, preferably the Tomiki style because they have sparring. Then you see that Aikido is very valuable

 

[Hand Sword]

Aikido doesn't need any help from other styles to be effective. It does fine on it's own when one aquires the skill through practice and time. That goes for anything, Kung Fu included.

 

[Hand Sword]

Please, don't anyone get me wrong. I beleive one should cross train, it has great benefits. However, no system is better than any of the others, and none should be dumped on. They all come down to the practitioner's ability, not the styles, themselves. They all take persistent training and time to aquire the skills necessary. On a personal note, I've worked the security industry with Aikidoka, I can assure you of their effectiveness!

 

[Yari]

Hi

I do agree that Aikido doesn't need "help" from other styles. But it really depends on the instructor. It's not Aikido that can be defined, but the person using it and in what situation.

There are many different interpitations of Aikido, typically with there own personal slant.

This personal slant can mean that you should cross train for effektivness.

/Yari

 

[Hand Sword]

The moves are what they are, no matter the style. If self defense is your focus, you'll make them work for you, without cross training. That's why there are the variations of styles to begin with. Each made it work for them, and now teach their way.