How does he do it?
- Thread starter Zeny
- Start date
oaktree
Master of Arts
Zeny you seem to want to look for magical ways of applications and having linked actual fights in other threads for you none of the guys in your video can fight if they needed to. So yes maybe it looks cool and wow but it's like watching a magician and building false hope of actual combative skills. When I teach I don't teach bs my students some of them grew up fighting so there is no bs in the approach.
I don't care if they call it chi or fajin or physics or Martian mind control rays. The fact is that in the first 2 videos the demo dummies are throwing themselves around in a way which is not based on the actual physical movements of the demonstrator. It's either conscious fakery or (more likely, IMO) the result of self-hypnosis and psychological conditioning. If the demonstrator tried the same movements with someone who hadn't been taught to respond that way, the results would be completely different.
The 3rd video has actual legitimate technique. The demo dummies are just overselling it to various degrees.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
There is no fajin without qi.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
You seem to have forgotten.... the mighty and all powerful style of.....XUEFU!!!!!!!
Perhaps more an example of Shaping, since that produces a progressive series of responses based upon rewards for progressive approximations of the desired behavior. This isn't a pure example of shaping (it does follow some of the principles of both Classical Conditioning and Operant Conditioning), but it's likely the approval of the instructor and other students that serves as the reward, and the student gradually becomes more and more "responsive" - giving a larger response to a smaller input.
mograph
Master of Arts
Good catch. I eschewed the operant path because of what I saw as a lack of reward, but the instructor's attention (and, as you wrote, approval) is a reward. "Pick me, Sifu!"
And a powerful reward for most folks - more so to some people, and maybe those are the people who are drawn to these instructors.
By the way, shaping can also happen to perception. It's entirely possible (and likely in some cases, given their apparently sincere attempts to work with skeptics and challengers) that some of these instructors truly believe they are that good. It doesn't help that there are actual, workable techniques that seem just as mysterious.
For instance, I had someone from Yanagi-ryu demonstrate something to me in a seminar without explaining what was going to happen. He had me try to punch him in the chest. When I did, he used his hand to change my targeting (apparently something they spent a lot of time working on), and I simply missed without him moving. It looked like a damned Jedi mind trick, because the movement of the hand looks like Obi Wan waving his hand at the Storm Troopers on Tatooine. I had to believe in that one, since I didn't know what was supposed to happen beforehand, but it worked. Not something I'd want to trust in a fight, but interesting.
oaktree
Master of Arts
The girl way in the back in the black top and skirt looks kinda of cute not the one sitting on the red chair that one seems ok...the one next to the ugly one holding the pink thing may be third best. The one girl white shirt black pants top of green bleachers looks cute too. I get distracted easy by cute girls.
My wife calls me bian tai.I think that means I am a nice guy
mograph
Master of Arts
Did you see the video of Ian Sinclair (Tai Chi vs. MMA) that I posted in another thread? There's a pole dancer doing a demo (not like that!) in the background. I think you'd like it.
oaktree
Master of Arts
Omg she is polishing the pole too her stroke work is impeccable.Did you see the video of Ian Sinclair (Tai Chi vs. MMA) that I posted in another thread? There's a pole dancer doing a demo (not like that!) in the background. I think you'd like it.
mograph
Master of Arts
Ya gotta respect professionals.
Ah but one can't demonstrate on outsiders because it's 'too dangerous', it always has to be a student who has been trained and can take the pain/being KO'd.
oaktree
Master of Arts
If you can't throw then look for another way to bring him down. For example let's use seoi nage a common arm throw. If you get the arm break it first over the shoulder so you got that at least. If you are not getting under his center of gravity for what ever reason, then you could step to the side and behind him under the arm you hold and choke and kick out his back of knee.
In essence, if you can't throw adapt to another technique because nothing looks more sad then trying to throw someone and you can't throw them.
oaktree
Master of Arts
Actually I didn't mind that video, looks more plausible. If something looks plausible then I will say so, if not I will say it looks like bs. For me, I would have to touch hands. I have felt fa jin pushes and they have pushed me back so I do but in it, but it wasn't so exaggerated and my teacher said proper lining up of the body to the point of off balance. I am a big advocate of realism in self defense. I was telling my student this that we can do Taijiquan for health if that is your main focus, but I want you to look at the applications to have an idea. As teacher's in my opinion, what we partake in knowledge we want our students to defend themselves intelligently and give them all we have to offer. I feel giving a student a low percentage method of dealing with an attacker is irresponsible. I recall the first time I asked my student to throw a punch I said leaving your arm out for me to demonstrate and talk about points is good however, in real life this won't work so throw your punch and snap it back to ready position.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Zeny
I am still not entirely sure what the true point of this thread is but you may want to familiarize yourself with MT Rules, specifically these
1.10.2 No Art bashing.
I am still not entirely sure what the true point of this thread is but you may want to familiarize yourself with MT Rules, specifically these
1.10.2 No Art bashing.
- No one art is "the best", no one "style" is the best. All have their strengths and weaknesses. Do your research and find what best fits your ability and need.
1.10.3 No Individual Bashing / Fraud Busting.
It is not our mission to out and expose frauds or decide who "sucks". Such discussions rarely lead anywhere other than to headaches, and lawsuits.
I don't have a problem with that one. I'd have to touch hands with the teacher myself to fully gauge his skill level and I don't know for sure how deliberately compliant his demo partner was being, but at least the teacher was using real techniques and his demo partner was reacting to the actual technique being performed rather than throwing himself based on a non-verbal suggestion.
Similar threads
