how do you teach Systema?
- Thread starter Roland
- Start date
R,
I would suggest ideally going to get a valid instructor or goto Vlad, Mikhail for a seminar. In the Russain trip this year there were about three guys (from a group of twenty) who went to the trip becuase they wanted to learn and study RMA.
I dont think watching videos is a good idea until you have a base line, due to the fact that a video is only one dimensional (unless you want to do the excercises). Even when training there are small facets that you miss until you understand them later e..g balance, direction etc.
Hope that helped (confused!) you..
My 2 euros (or £1.99) worth..
I would suggest ideally going to get a valid instructor or goto Vlad, Mikhail for a seminar. In the Russain trip this year there were about three guys (from a group of twenty) who went to the trip becuase they wanted to learn and study RMA.
I dont think watching videos is a good idea until you have a base line, due to the fact that a video is only one dimensional (unless you want to do the excercises). Even when training there are small facets that you miss until you understand them later e..g balance, direction etc.
Hope that helped (confused!) you..
My 2 euros (or £1.99) worth..
G
GouRonin
Guest
This is a great question. You and I have discussed this previously, in fact we discussed it on the way to see Vlad. The issue is totally about having an instructor teach you. Unlike some arts, which shall remain nameless, systema will not certify you via video. You need an instructor to constantly be seeing to help you move on. The videos are simply to give you ideas.
You know I would love to start a club here but I'm not ready yet. I'm still working hard and hoping to get better at it with Vlad's help.
In my opinion there are far too many people claiming to have systema training who have just been to a seminar where someone showed them some and they got to try it out, or a class once. Sure it is training and they can justify it any way they want but you know what I mean.
You know I would love to start a club here but I'm not ready yet. I'm still working hard and hoping to get better at it with Vlad's help.
In my opinion there are far too many people claiming to have systema training who have just been to a seminar where someone showed them some and they got to try it out, or a class once. Sure it is training and they can justify it any way they want but you know what I mean.
OP
OP
Like I mentioned earlier, this was brought on by overhearing a discussion about people who wanted to have a club going, and it just got me thinking.
I know I incorporate what I have learned from both Martin & Vladamir in my own training. And even some of the work outs I do now have some of the movements & breathing that I try to share with others.
I would never say I teach Systema, I still not think I have a real clue what it is.
I hope this creats some good discussion so we can alll expand our views.
I know I incorporate what I have learned from both Martin & Vladamir in my own training. And even some of the work outs I do now have some of the movements & breathing that I try to share with others.
I would never say I teach Systema, I still not think I have a real clue what it is.
I hope this creats some good discussion so we can alll expand our views.
i think that it is good if all the students in your group are training with vlad and they are more like training partners for you it could work but someone with no experience or training directly with the source could become a chore for sure.i have a good idea what sytema is trying to accomplish in it's teachings but life is just too hecktick to go to vlad,but gou gets there so i will just sponge off of him till things slow down for me.
later
jay
ps only start a group with vlads blessings cause he will let you know when you are ready.
later
jay
ps only start a group with vlads blessings cause he will let you know when you are ready.
OP
OP
There are way too many people claiming this & that, it is all garbage!
Even Vlad was saying about these guys who come out for one, may two classes, then buying a bunch of tapes and claiming to teach, or to know Systema.
All martial systems have this problem, but it still sucks.
I like Jaybacca's idea that a beginer group should all have experience from Vlad, and that they get together, not as teachers & students, but as work out partners.
Even Vlad was saying about these guys who come out for one, may two classes, then buying a bunch of tapes and claiming to teach, or to know Systema.
All martial systems have this problem, but it still sucks.
I like Jaybacca's idea that a beginer group should all have experience from Vlad, and that they get together, not as teachers & students, but as work out partners.
R
Rich_
Guest
I've also heard of people in the UK claiming to be certified Systema instructors having followed a video course, only to find out that other (legitimate) Systema people have never heard of them - this was a few years ago, before RMA had really been heard of in the West... where did the rumour come from?
OP
OP
It is a sad world out there when people can not live by their own accomplishments alone.
Not sure really why anyone would ever need, let alone want to start false advertising.
Even a little bitty white lie, like"I do 'such 'n such art'" is just plain dumb!.
:soapbox:
Not sure really why anyone would ever need, let alone want to start false advertising.
Even a little bitty white lie, like"I do 'such 'n such art'" is just plain dumb!.
:soapbox:
R
RobP
Guest
It could become more and more of a problem as the Russian arts become more widely known. It's already happening - TKD schools suddenly teaching "traditional gun disarming", one prominent school in the UK "trademarking" Russian techniques as its own, etc etc
A lot of videos are being sold but its pretty much the same people coming to train with Vladimir when he is over. I'm sure it's the same with the ROSS tapes.
Personally I find it odd that someone would like a style enough to take bits and pieces from the videos but not actually train in it - a sign of the times?
A lot of videos are being sold but its pretty much the same people coming to train with Vladimir when he is over. I'm sure it's the same with the ROSS tapes.
Personally I find it odd that someone would like a style enough to take bits and pieces from the videos but not actually train in it - a sign of the times?
R
Rich_
Guest
Rob - If it's the same one I'm thinking of, I believe they're trademarking the whole style!
As far as the bits'n'pieces, it's probably a symptom of the JKD philosophy. In some ways it's good, you can (given enough skill and experience) tailor your own comprehensive, effective art; in other ways you miss out on the richness of developing within a style.
As far as the bits'n'pieces, it's probably a symptom of the JKD philosophy. In some ways it's good, you can (given enough skill and experience) tailor your own comprehensive, effective art; in other ways you miss out on the richness of developing within a style.
R
RobP
Guest
Lol, well you have to laugh when you see "flinch response" @2002 DS.....
Agree about the JKD philosophy though, cross-training is the in thing at the moment. It can be good but overall I think it makes for people who know little about a lot of things. It also seems to reduce things down to "technique" level.
Cheers
Rob
Agree about the JKD philosophy though, cross-training is the in thing at the moment. It can be good but overall I think it makes for people who know little about a lot of things. It also seems to reduce things down to "technique" level.
Cheers
Rob
OP
OP
1) The higher ups actually train in and practice the art, even get certified before teaching it, they do no just steal what they want. They may only teach bits and pieces at a seminar, but they usually understand the arts they teach.
2) Most JKD guys give credit where credit is due!
"This is from this art...while this comes from here.." ect.
Both Guro Dan & Sifu Larry like to give little history lessons when they teach, alway good stuff!
It is the "Read Only" martial artisit who steals what he thinks is this weeks best style.
What I call a "Black Belt Magazine Black Belt!"
2) Most JKD guys give credit where credit is due!
"This is from this art...while this comes from here.." ect.
Both Guro Dan & Sifu Larry like to give little history lessons when they teach, alway good stuff!
It is the "Read Only" martial artisit who steals what he thinks is this weeks best style.
What I call a "Black Belt Magazine Black Belt!"
RMA is a very infectious thing. Once you start learning it, and begin to move that way, its hard to "turn it off" when your doing another art. The information bleeds over and through.
I think this can create an awkward sitution for people who are already teaching martial arts when they come to Systema. they recognize the bleed through, enjoy the art, but they aren't really a qualified RMA teacher yet either.
In my case for instance I was teaching mostly Kali, once I noticed the bleed, I felt uncomfortable teacing "Kali", because it really wasn't anymore. It was a FMA-RMA hybrid.
So your uncomfortable about teaching your old art, and you don't feel ready to teach the new art yet. Dilemna.
Really though, regardless of what concious choice the person makes, they still end up on the road toward teaching RMA. the bleeding process either transforms the old art, or they journey forth trying to make a go at the new art.
So how do you go about starting to "teach" RMA? You don't, it goes about you
I tend to teach them the same things. Except those WITH experience, I have to repeat things to more often. Frequently there ears and minds aren't as open, and they have more ingrained patterns to let go of. Essentially, everyone is taught the same as far as the "group" part of class goes. Of course you go around and try to connect the material with each individual according to his needs and learning style.
Arthur
Thanks Roland. That was the beginning. Of course it all feels better these days. Now it seems awkward not to move as a Systema guy. It seems like that's all i know know.
>How do I teach?
A hard question from my perspective. Systema is known for never teaching the same class twice. I follow that for the most part. At least in regular classesI follow that.
Systema is also known for its individualization... go with your strengths. consequently there are parts of my Systema class that are different from other peoples Systema class. In some ways I think i am maybe more cut out for teaching Kadochnikov style or R.O.S.S. I like to to go over the physics, I like to break things down into core movement.
Systema tends to be taught "experintially"... less explanation, more examples and personal work. While I think that is a great method, my own tendencies lean towards extra explanation.
In general, how does class go...?
We usually start class with some basic movement and escape drills. The drills can serve to "warm people up" as well as set the pace for later interactions and strategies.
From there i usually show some particular concept, and ask people towork on it. Depending on the class makeup, I some times explore that idea more... or cut it short. During this phase, I'll encourage people to start with a near immitation of the work I show, then ask them to quickly moveon to free work based on this same idea.
Afeter I see the majority of class getting an idea of what I've shown... I'll normally introduce a second concept. Again I wait to see basic understanding expressed through free movement. Then I'll discuss how those two ideas are related, and ask the class to express themselves through free work while exemplifying that type of work.
At that point I'll ask if there are any questions on this or other work. If there are questions I'll try to answer them, if not I'll move on.
If I move on I'll introduce a varibale to the concept we were working on. that might manifest as multple attackers, defender on the ground, attaker having a weapon, etc.
Then we end class in a "circle up" where we all discuss our obserations.
>How do I teach?
A hard question from my perspective. Systema is known for never teaching the same class twice. I follow that for the most part. At least in regular classesI follow that.
Systema is also known for its individualization... go with your strengths. consequently there are parts of my Systema class that are different from other peoples Systema class. In some ways I think i am maybe more cut out for teaching Kadochnikov style or R.O.S.S. I like to to go over the physics, I like to break things down into core movement.
Systema tends to be taught "experintially"... less explanation, more examples and personal work. While I think that is a great method, my own tendencies lean towards extra explanation.
In general, how does class go...?
We usually start class with some basic movement and escape drills. The drills can serve to "warm people up" as well as set the pace for later interactions and strategies.
From there i usually show some particular concept, and ask people towork on it. Depending on the class makeup, I some times explore that idea more... or cut it short. During this phase, I'll encourage people to start with a near immitation of the work I show, then ask them to quickly moveon to free work based on this same idea.
Afeter I see the majority of class getting an idea of what I've shown... I'll normally introduce a second concept. Again I wait to see basic understanding expressed through free movement. Then I'll discuss how those two ideas are related, and ask the class to express themselves through free work while exemplifying that type of work.
At that point I'll ask if there are any questions on this or other work. If there are questions I'll try to answer them, if not I'll move on.
If I move on I'll introduce a varibale to the concept we were working on. that might manifest as multple attackers, defender on the ground, attaker having a weapon, etc.
Then we end class in a "circle up" where we all discuss our obserations.
OP
OP
I was unsure of what to say afterwards. I found it it very insightful, I got a good idea of how you do things, and found it fairly personal too. It was great.
I guess my next line of thought goes along the lines that other Martial Arts sometimes have requirements for teaching at certain levels for their students.
Are there requirements for students to teach Systema?
When does one start to teach, if asked to do so, or even on one's own ?
I guess my next line of thought goes along the lines that other Martial Arts sometimes have requirements for teaching at certain levels for their students.
Are there requirements for students to teach Systema?
When does one start to teach, if asked to do so, or even on one's own ?
Been trying to think of how to anser the question... nothing brilliant has popped to mind yet, so I thought mayne I'd just start babbling a little and see what comes out.
Systema is fairly free form, and no two peoples Systema is the same. My individual body shape, height, flexibility, individual reactions, etc. are all going to combine to create "Arthur's Systema". Someone else doing or teaching Systema could have an entirely different Systema, that arises from their individual characteristics.
For the art to be what it is, it has to have this individualization. because of this, things like curriculums, ranks and tests, are kind of hard to implement, even if you wanted to.
Clearly a teacher can observe you and tell if your "getting it", if you've made improvements, etc. However standardized anything is impossible to implement in Systema without causing it to cease being "Systema".
As far as teaching certification goes... there are basically 3 ways in my opinion.
1) Vladimir sasy... you should teach and you feel like doing so.
2) You feel like teaching Systema and ask Vladimir if its okay. He either says yes or no.
3) You just go about showing people what you know, and as it becomes more and more Systema like... you are in effect teaching more and more Systema, regardless of certification.
Personally, I've always felt (pre and post Systema) that if you feel you need a test to validate your skill level... maybe you aren't really ready to teach. Of course politics and biz being what they are there are many legitimate reasons for taking tests and getting certs, but I don't think those really ready to teach (as a head teacher), are ready if the NEED the test for themselves.
Of course in reality, everyone is a teacher and its great to share what you know with others and your training partners in particular.
I know I didn't answer the questions in a real specific or fucused way, but hopefully it helped.
Arthur
Systema is fairly free form, and no two peoples Systema is the same. My individual body shape, height, flexibility, individual reactions, etc. are all going to combine to create "Arthur's Systema". Someone else doing or teaching Systema could have an entirely different Systema, that arises from their individual characteristics.
For the art to be what it is, it has to have this individualization. because of this, things like curriculums, ranks and tests, are kind of hard to implement, even if you wanted to.
Clearly a teacher can observe you and tell if your "getting it", if you've made improvements, etc. However standardized anything is impossible to implement in Systema without causing it to cease being "Systema".
As far as teaching certification goes... there are basically 3 ways in my opinion.
1) Vladimir sasy... you should teach and you feel like doing so.
2) You feel like teaching Systema and ask Vladimir if its okay. He either says yes or no.
3) You just go about showing people what you know, and as it becomes more and more Systema like... you are in effect teaching more and more Systema, regardless of certification.
Personally, I've always felt (pre and post Systema) that if you feel you need a test to validate your skill level... maybe you aren't really ready to teach. Of course politics and biz being what they are there are many legitimate reasons for taking tests and getting certs, but I don't think those really ready to teach (as a head teacher), are ready if the NEED the test for themselves.
Of course in reality, everyone is a teacher and its great to share what you know with others and your training partners in particular.
I know I didn't answer the questions in a real specific or fucused way, but hopefully it helped.
Arthur
G
GouRonin
Guest
When I asked he put his arm around me and said to me I wasn't ready yet. But soon if I keep working hard I would be. I wasn't upset that he said so because he really made me feel as if he was like some who is cultivating something in each of his students like a gardener would his plants. I was happy enough for him to say he expects special things out of me.
I often think that Vlad has great people skills that break through his language. You don't have to understand what he says to understand what he means.
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