Systema a discussion

[Gweilo]

Systema, is not well received in the MA world, that's fine with me, but I thought I would start a discussion about it, first of all I am a practioner, not an instructor, I have attained 3rd Dan in two other arts, and have no commercial gain by talking about Systema.
So what is Systema, it is a MA that focuses on mental and physical health,welbeing and self defence. Is it a style, some say yes, but for me it is a process, a process that teaches the practioner how to move naturally, freely, and to counter attack even when you are smaller, weaker and or injured.
It is based on 4 pillars, Breathing, relaxation, posture and movement. We can discuss each element later, but in essence, if you use your breath correctly, keep calm and relaxed, with good posture, you can counter fluidly, quickly, powerfully and naturally, no magic, just countering from a natural to you but some times Un natural directions or dimensions than other arts, 2nd we strike in a different way, relaxed, with speed, and can hit at different depths, I.e skin deep, muscle deep, organ deep, and because being relaxed multiple strikes are shorter and quicker, we move efficiently, effectively, and all training revolves around distance and timing.
I am not claiming Systema is better than any other MA, but it is a system that is adaptable, you can attach elements from your previous arts, and also like most MA, the fitter you become the beter your skill, the better your skill the fitter you are.I welcome comments and criticism, hut not interested in a slag fest. I will post some more information later, but it is time to train.

 

[Gweilo]

Here's how Vladimir Vasiliev, one of the top 2 Systema instructor says about the art.
Throughout the history of this huge country, Russia had to repel invaders from the north, south, east, and west. All attackers brought their distinct styles of combat and weaponry. The battles took place on different terrain, during freezing winters and sweltering summer heat alike, with the Russians often greatly outnumbered by the enemy forces. As a result of these factors, the Russian warriors acquired a style that combined strong spirit with extremely innovative and versatile tactics that were at the same time practical, deadly, and effective against any type of enemy under any circumstances. The style was natural and free while having no strict rules, rigid structure or limitations (except for moral ones). All tactics were based on instinctive reactions, individual strengths and characteristics, specifically designed for fast learning.

When the Communists came to power in 1917, they suppressed all national traditions. Those practicing the old style of fighting could be severely punished. At the same time, the authorities quickly realized how viable and devastating the original combat system was and reserved it just for a few Special Operations Units.
In Systema, the synergy of three components creates a TRUE WARRIOR - Combat Skill, Strong Spirit and Healthy Body.

The body has to be free of tension, filled with endurance, flexibility, effortless movement and explosive potential.
The spirit or psychological state has to be calm, free of anger, irritation, fear, self-pity, delusion and pride.
The combat skill includes movements that are powerful and precise, instant and economical, spontaneous, subtle and diverse, the signature of a true professional.

There is a reason why Russian Martial Art is called SYSTEMA. It is a complete set of concepts and training components that enhance one’s life. In this case, acquiring the martial art skill is a way to improve the function of all seven physiological systems of the body and all three levels of human abilities the physical, the psychological and the spiritual.

The key principle of the Russian Systema is non-destruction. The goal is to make sure that your training and your attitudes do no damage to the body or the psyche of you or your partners. Systema is designed to create, build and strengthen your body, your psyche, your family and your country.

Systema has another name “poznai sebia” or “Know Yourself”. What does it really mean to Understand Yourself? It is not just to know what your strengths and weaknesses are, that is good but fairly superficial. Training in Russian Martial Art is one of the sure ways to see the full extent of our limitations - to see how proud and weak we really are. Systema allows us to gain the true strength of spirit that comes from humility and clarity in seeing the purpose of our life.

 

[ShortBridge]

I wasn't aware that systema wasn't well received. I like what I've seen of it.

 

[jobo]

Here's how Vladimir Vasiliev, one of the top 2 Systema instructor says about the art.
Throughout the history of this huge country, Russia had to repel invaders from the north, south, east, and west. All attackers brought their distinct styles of combat and weaponry. The battles took place on different terrain, during freezing winters and sweltering summer heat alike, with the Russians often greatly outnumbered by the enemy forces. As a result of these factors, the Russian warriors acquired a style that combined strong spirit with extremely innovative and versatile tactics that were at the same time practical, deadly, and effective against any type of enemy under any circumstances. The style was natural and free while having no strict rules, rigid structure or limitations (except for moral ones). All tactics were based on instinctive reactions, individual strengths and characteristics, specifically designed for fast learning.

When the Communists came to power in 1917, they suppressed all national traditions. Those practicing the old style of fighting could be severely punished. At the same time, the authorities quickly realized how viable and devastating the original combat system was and reserved it just for a few Special Operations Units.
In Systema, the synergy of three components creates a TRUE WARRIOR - Combat Skill, Strong Spirit and Healthy Body.

The body has to be free of tension, filled with endurance, flexibility, effortless movement and explosive potential.
The spirit or psychological state has to be calm, free of anger, irritation, fear, self-pity, delusion and pride.
The combat skill includes movements that are powerful and precise, instant and economical, spontaneous, subtle and diverse, the signature of a true professional.

There is a reason why Russian Martial Art is called SYSTEMA. It is a complete set of concepts and training components that enhance one’s life. In this case, acquiring the martial art skill is a way to improve the function of all seven physiological systems of the body and all three levels of human abilities the physical, the psychological and the spiritual.

The key principle of the Russian Systema is non-destruction. The goal is to make sure that your training and your attitudes do no damage to the body or the psyche of you or your partners. Systema is designed to create, build and strengthen your body, your psyche, your family and your country.

Systema has another name “poznai sebia” or “Know Yourself”. What does it really mean to Understand Yourself? It is not just to know what your strengths and weaknesses are, that is good but fairly superficial. Training in Russian Martial Art is one of the sure ways to see the full extent of our limitations - to see how proud and weak we really are. Systema allows us to gain the true strength of spirit that comes from humility and clarity in seeing the purpose of our life.

hmm, that a some what biased vertion if Russian history, they have spent much of their long history invading small states, that they vastly out numbeed, when they actually did get invaded, the French and the Germans, it was the cold that beat them, not systema,

if he can't get his own history right, I'm not sure how much credance, to give to the rest ?

 

[Gweilo]

hmm, that a some what biased vertion if Russian history, they have spent much of their long history invading small states, that they vastly out numbeed, when they actually did get invaded, the French and the Germans, it was the cold that beat them, not systema,

if he can't get his own history right, I'm not sure how much credance, to give to the rest ?

hmm, that a some what biased vertion if Russian history, they have spent much of their long history invading small states, that they vastly out numbeed, when they actually did get invaded, the French and the Germans, it was the cold that beat them, not systema,

if he can't get his own history right, I'm not sure how much credance, to give to the rest ?

I think you will find the time line is a shortened version from the 10th century to modern times

 

[jobo]

I think you will find the time line is a shortened version from the 10th century to modern times

ok how many times hav they been invaded by superior forces sincere the 10th century, I count one, and they lost heavily, but then every one lost to the Mongols,how many have you got ? and how many of those involved fighting cavilary with big swords with systema

 

[ShortBridge]

I think you will find the time line is a shortened version from the 10th century to modern times

Sorry....what?

 

[drop bear]

ok how many times hav they been invaded by superior forces sincere the 10th century, I count one, and they lost heavily, but then every one lost to the Mongols,how many have you got ? and how many of those involved fighting cavilary with big swords with systema

The germans.

 

[jobo]

The germans.

covered the Germans and I he French, both beaten by the cold and not systema

 

[_Simon_]

@Gweilo, Systema sounds utterly fascinating, love hearing about it, especially its philosophy and natural relaxed way, am gonna look into it. Thanks for sharing

 

[Buka]

Systema interests me. I have no formal training in it, but have studying it online over the years and discussed it with those that do train it. I'd like to hook up with some Systema guys someday. I think that would be fun.

 

[Gweilo]

covered the Germans and I he French, both beaten by the cold and not systema

Do you actually read the posts properly? You think the vikings only invaded Europe ? Again the Germanic tribes already mentioned, Sarmations, Scythians, Pechenegs and Drevlinians, Mongols and Volga Bolgars?

 

[Gweilo]

covered the Germans and I he French, both beaten by the cold and not systema

And not defeated by Systema, but was part of the history which makes up RMA.

 

[Gweilo]

Breathing, most people when they hear about Systema breathing, their reaction is to compare it with other arts, there are similarities as in all aspects of MA.
Systemas approach is as follows, you can go without food for approx 3 weeks, water approx 3 days, oxygen approx 3 mins, when you are born the first thing you do is inhale, when you die the last thing you do is exhale, yet when starting on a healthy life style, nutrition and hydration there is lots of freely available education, 5 a day, drink 3 litres of water, but breathing, it is usually in through the nose and out through the mouth and that is usually it. In MA you get more, but in Systema it is a fundamental principle (just to be clear, I make no claims of Systema being a better MA, just different). To break it down, we use breath techniques for several reasons, circulating oxygen etc, cooling the sinus, but also for stamina, recovery, and to remain relaxed and calm, for stamina we learn how to change our breath pattern in accordance to the extent of effort we use, we can make an inhale exhale last 2 seconds, or a whole minute, and we only take in the amount we need (I will explain more later), the result being we maintain optimal oxygen intake at any level of movement, including a recovery breath (burst breathing) where we link the breath to our heart beat, then after 10 seconds take a controlled exhale, again I will explain more later.
In most MA practioner are taught to strike on the exhale, in Systema, we strike, on the inhale, on a full hold, on the exhale, and on the empty hold, so we can counter at any stage of our breath, again not making any claims or knocking other systems, but only striking on an exhale, in poker they would call that a tell, a tell that becomes more obvious the longer the encounter goes on.
Breathing to be relaxed in combat, when I say relaxed, I mean no tension, I am sure some of you remember when someone made you jump by scaring you, or a near miss, that Sharpe intake of breath, that heavy stuck feeling in the arms and shoulders, or legs followed by a surge of adrenaline, n that tightness in the neck as you are about to fight. We work towards eliminating these types of tension, and it is a well known fact, being relaxed we move with less effort and faster, breathwork is one of our 4 pillars, and i will explain the training in more detail later.

 

[CB Jones]

You think the vikings only invaded Europe

They did not repel the Vikings. The vikings ruled and founded much of Russia.

The name Russia comes from the Rus People (also known as the Varangians)...who were Vikings that ruled Russia in the 9th-11th centuries.

 

[Gweilo]

Relax is the 2nd basic principle and goes hand in hand with breathing, as said in the last post being relaxed does not mean soggy, it means no tension, relaxed but ready, ready to avoid blend, redirect, strike, i cover more later.
Posture is the 3rd pillar, and goes again hand in hand with breathwork and being relaxed, being tense in the shoulders will hinder free movement, and without good posture there will be poor balance, poor balance equals poor technique. With the correct breathing, we can be relaxed, have no tension (tension aids fatigue), with these 3 pillars in place helps us with the 4th pillar movement, in Systema there are no katas or set movements, we move freely (again not making any claims about better), naturally and quickly, utilising our relaxed state to counter with a single strike when our opponents are at a v unable part of a technique, or multiple strikes from unexpected directions and dimensions, wit good distance and timing work.
This is a quick training video to explain the processes briefly explained.
Matt Hill

 

[Gweilo]

Hopefully this clip may help

 

[Headhunter]

There's a systema place just opened in my area and I'm interested but all they seem to talk about is their breathing stuff...what's their actual self defence techniques like

 

[Headhunter]

One thing I don't agree with is the whole being relaxed when you strike thing. The theories good and fine for training but if I'm attacked late at night I am not going to be relaxed at all

 

[wab25]

what's their actual self defence techniques like

Post #16 contains a link to video, showing some of their techniques that involve touching their opponent. Those seen in the video are similar to what I have seen from people I know, who study the art. Searching youtube will provide more examples of their techniques that touch the opponent and those that don't.